Senate Going Postal: The 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

@LloydChristmas fair points, although I would argue we're actually much closer to full-on hellscape than people want to acknowledge and Biden wouldn't save us from getting there. If brilliant incrementalist Obama couldn't reverse the slide toward corporate autocracy then I have zero confidence in his dumb sidekick.

 

The well known narrative that some of Joe’s verbal issues that people pick on are related to his childhood stutter/stammer and not full blown dementia also gained a lot of credibility tonight. You could see the classic signs of a stutter at times when his words wouldn’t come out but as he reacted to questions with a surprising amount of details and turned to Bernie as he spoke he didn’t in any way appear like a lost old man in an old folks home who didn’t know where he was the way some Trump and Bernie bros suggest. Rather he at times turned the clock back to his performance 6 years ago versus Paul Ryan.

It actually helped him that the bar had been set lower and he calmed enough fears over cognitive decline for enough people to help himself. He also avoided any massive shockers that will go down in history as catastrophic and campaign changing. His female VP announcement is likely to steal a lot of press and the two Coronavirus clips near the top were pretty even from both.

It was a weird debate but I don’t think the trajectory will be altered much at all and that in and of itself is a win for Joe Biden since he’s already well positioned to be the nominee.

 

Another delusional piece of Democrat cheerleading where they pretend that Biden didn't lie for two hours and that Trump would not have smashed him for it.

 

I don't watch Chris Matthews's show, but what the hell was up with that? Is he seriously stupid enough to think that Bernie Sanders is Mao Zedong? I'd expect that from Republicans.

 

I realise that some people here want radical and fast change to the US system, but it imply isn't going to happen. You don't have the votes or the practical means of doing so, even if Bernie were to win. So in order to positively affect peoples lives I think that you need to consider supporting the lesser of two evils. I mean, I really don't think a good argument could be made that Biden, as bad as some of his record is, would be worse than Trump. At a certain point there has to be compromise in order to not have the whole system slide into worse autocracy.

 

I actually think you gotta stoop to Trump’s level and get in the mud to beat him. The whole “when he goes low we go high” hasn’t worked for anyone in 4 years.

 

@DarthPhilosopher speaking for myself, I don't expect fast radical change if Bernie wins, but I think it's the only chance to reverse the slide. Biden will not reverse the slide, like Obama didn't. Will he slow it down? Maybe, maybe not. I think the highest priority right now needs to be reforming the Democrats, which he is absolutely opposed to.

 

In practical terms I'm not sure how Bernie would reverse the slide much more than Biden? They are all limited by the powers of the office and the Congress they have.

 

Bernie IS my compromise candidate. That's what people should remember. If my new avi didn't showcase it enough as is

Biden has said he wont is the thing. He thinks the republicans are just under a spell and that they will go back to "normal". He is delusional. Not to mention he wont even FIGHT for M4A or stopping climate change

 

For me, right now, I can feel Biden's hostility towards me and people like me. And I'm not talking about the Left. I'm talking about those of us who aren't on stable footing. Biden doesn't have good interactions with average people. He's quick to tell anyone who challenges him on any point to "go vote for someone else." It's as if he doesn't want to be president of all Americans, he wants to be president of the people who agree with him. And I don't like that about him.

 

No, I realise you're a Marxist-Leninist. I just think that Trump is much worse in the grand scheme of things and for the lives of the average person then Biden would be (as much as you may hate Biden).

 

He can do all sorts of things, from appointing the heads of the National Labor Relations Board, to the FEC, to executive orders etc, etc. But most importantly he can prove that there is a political alternative to corporatocracy and begin the process of reforming the party. Bernie is trying to pull off an insurgency within the establishment, and I'll be the first to admit it's not going well right now, but it's progress at least. Biden is not progress.

 

Yeah I cannot see how you wouldn't. He seems genuinely disgusted by poor people and people of color who don't bow to him like a king. I still want to punch him for freaking attacking that veteran who questioned him on Iraq. That sickens me so freaking much and embodies all the problems with him. Trump at least people hate, but having Biden be legitimized further is unforgivable to me.

Again though, Trump can at least cause dems to give a flying **** for once. The republicans are not gonna change nor cease, and Biden is designed and pitching himself as if he is a reset button. That is more threatening to the most at risk people. ICE is not gonna go back to....well it was never normal or anything less than evil, but it wont even go back to how it was under Obama. That's why Bernie was so clear about abolishing it.

The "average" american does not exist. I reject that premise as well. Middle class whites may feel normal, but the working class are not getting their jobs back. Biden will do what Obama did but moreso, he will put freaking execs and lobbyists in charge of certain positions and thus cause damage we cannot undo. Look at net neutrality. That is on the Obama administration and their appointees

I think an america that knows it is on fire is better than this ol chestnut

 

I feel like this was exactly my mindset in 2016. Just hold the line, play defense, change can wait for another day. Then Hillary Clinton lost to Trump. Her moderation and competence meant nothing to Americans. I don't see why Democrats want to run the same play again with Joe Biden.

 

He's already demonstrated an alternative with his movement, as well as moving the platform leftward. Being in office he wouldn't be able to make that many more lasting changes - he'd probably have to compromise to Biden's platform in any case. On-the-ground change is actually how the opinions shift - it's from the bottom up. The Democratic Party establishment isn't going anywhere - they'll always be trying to shift the party back to the centre. The progressives should focus on a grass-roots approach to change.

Well I don't think a moderate was the right choice for the Dems. But it's a better choice in the general than Trump.

 

Trump has already proven that an insurgent candidacy can radically transform a political party, just look at all the Pikachu-faced outcasts like Frum, Rubin etc. who had to find new homes after he moved in. Look at how he basically absorbed the RNC into his campaign. If you really think a Sanders presidency won't be massively, substantially different than a Biden one then I won't bother trying to convince you, as you probably don't understand how politics works in the U.S.

 

Can someone explain the "look at net neutrality" comment? That existed under the Obama Administration.

 

No, I realise that Trump has superficially 'transformed' the Republican Party (I'd argue it hasn't really changed them that much, but rather the true face has been brought forth and his trade policy will be an aberration for them). I do think however that many of the Republican establishment are biding their time until after Trump leaves to reestablish their control over the Party. I don't think a Trump shift is as permanent as many think it is - it'll either end in the split of the Republican Party after he leaves, or it'll move back to the establishment (which means they'll put back on a polite face).

Bernie needs to move the Overton Window further like Fox News did for Trump. This is done at a gross-roots level. The parties are reflections of the people who vote for them.

 

I just want to say how proud I am that I'm nowhere close to being the most radical leftist here anymore.

 

You look positively reasonable now Vivec.

 

Oh you misunderstand. As a leftist I say that success is when compared to the next generation I look like a liberal. I'll be happiest when I'm being taken to the gulag.

The kids are all right.

 

As I said, the people taking you to the gulag are going to be frightening from my perspective if that's the case.

 

2016 prepared me for unexpected developments but a Vivec/Philosopher team up is pretty surprising.

 

Don't be fooled, he still regards me as a social fascist.

 

Yeah your time has passed, zoomer communists FTW