1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Heir to the Empire 30 years Anniversary does it still hold up ?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by fett 4, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Master star 4

    Mar 27, 2020
    Personally i find Mara sometimes clinging to her idealization of the original Empire realistic, she was born and raised an imperial, groomed by the Emperor himself to believe in it, to believe she was special, on par with Darth Vader in importance, the height of her service as the Hand were in her teens and early 20's, so it makes sense she would idealize that period of her life, make excuses for why it was good, etc. and i like that it's not something she completely renounces immediately after joining Luke, it takes her time.

    By the time of her death, she identified herself more with her loyality to the Jedi, to Luke, and her duty to protect her son, and considered telling someone that they were like Palpatine an insult (as demonstrated by her last words to Jacen).

    I have a suspicion that a turning point for her getting over her idealization of her time as the Hand was when she learned about Roganda, and realized that she was never as special as she believed in the eyes of the Emperor.
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord 26X Wacky Wednesday/23x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Sep 2, 2012
    I'd say her experience with C'baoth, given how much like the Emperor he was aside from being insane, may also have contributed somewhat to the "Palpatine was an evil man" perspective.

    “Don’t insult me with childish denials, Mara Jade. I saw it all in your mind as you approached. Did you really believe you could take my Jedi away from me?”
    Mara swallowed, shivering from the cold night wind and the colder feeling within her. Thrawn had said that C’baoth was insane, and she could indeed hear the unstable edge of madness in his voice. But there was far more to the man than just that. There was a hard steel behind the voice, ruthless and calculating, with a sense of both supreme power and supreme confidence underlying it all.
    It was like hearing the Emperor speak again.


    “You don’t leave an enemy at your back,” she told him stiffly. “Not if you like living.”
    “He doesn’t have to be an enemy, Mara,” Skywalker said with that irritating earnestness of his. “He’s ill. Maybe he can be cured.”
    Mara felt her lip twist. “You didn’t hear the way he was talking before you showed up,” she said. “He’s insane, all right; but that’s not all he is anymore. He’s a lot stronger, and a whole lot more dangerous.” She hesitated. “He sounded just like the Emperor and Vader used to.”
    A muscle in Skywalker’s cheek twitched. “Vader was deep in the dark side, too,” he told her. “He was able to break that hold and come back. Maybe C’baoth can do the same.”
    “I wouldn’t bet on it,” Mara said. But she holstered her blaster. They didn’t have time to debate the issue; and as long as she needed Skywalker’s help, he had effective veto on decisions like this. “Just remember, it’s your back that’ll get the knife if you’re wrong.”
  3. PowBasilisk

    PowBasilisk Jedi Padawan star 1

    Jan 4, 2024
    IIRC Thrawn told her there were other hands and she didn’t want to believe it, so that realization probably started there
  4. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Master star 4

    Mar 27, 2020
    Yes her change from idolizing Palpatine and the Empire is based on two beliefs: That the Empire and Emperor are for the greater good, and that she is important to Palpatine (one being her moral justification the other being her ego played by Palpatine, much like how he played Anakin), so both had to be brought down before she started to seriously question her past, there's also some serious trauma from being his student from a very young age so when she sees someone resembling Palpatine like C' baoth was, she recoils.

    Her core trait, however, is her loyality, back in the Empire's days she was the most loyal to Palpatine, but now she has Karrde, and when the Empire made her betray Karrde, it was when the Empire started to clash with her core values.

    Ah yes, i had forgotten about that, however at that point she still hasn't accepted the idea, and later probably rationalized it as Thrawn lying to her, but when she saw the other hands, there was no denying it.

    Also note that during the NJO era she's among the characters who never bring up the Empire vs the Yuuzhan Vong hypothetical, even though HTTE Mara definetly would have, for me it's pretty clear that by the Vong war she didin't think much of the Empire (also her loyality shifted to her family first and foremost, and then the Jedi and Karrde).
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2024
  5. IG_2000

    IG_2000 Force Ghost star 4

    Aug 5, 2008
    I’m sort of picturing Talon Karrde as Frank Zappa lately. If I were in charge I’d cast someone and essentially tell them to watch videos of Frank Zappa as reference for Karrde.
  6. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Jun 12, 2014
    I've always thought of Winston (Ian McShane) from the John Wick movies as a sort of darker, edgier Talon Karrde.
    QuinlanSolo and Jedi Ben like this.
  7. Kadar Ordo

    Kadar Ordo Jedi Knight star 2

    Feb 9, 2021
    Well, look what we have here....
    Interesting that they gave Joruus a red saber. Did he have one in the book (or a saber at all)? Haven't read the Thrawn books yet....
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2024
  8. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Sep 25, 2016
    He doesn’t have a saber in the books. Or in Outbound Flight, come to think of it…
  9. SWpants

    SWpants Force Ghost star 5

    Oct 28, 2004
    It's still awesome. Check out those lightning hands.
  10. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Master star 4

    Mar 27, 2020
    @Kadar Ordo Nope, he never used a Lightsaber, he seemed okay just using Force attacks, but i can see the logic behind giving him a Lightsaber for an action figure, as he could potentially have one just that he barely used it.

    I'm actually suprised they made such an intricate set for the final duel on Tantiss, here's to hoping that we will eventually get the same for the final duel from Dark Empire #6 with Luke, Leia and Palpatine each with their respective sabers.

    *Buys it, but gives the ANH Lightsaber to Mara and C'baoth's red lightsaber in Luke to replicate his setup for the Lumiya fights*
  11. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    May 15, 2006
    Dude. This is so random and awesome. A C'Baoth figure? A fricking Luuke figure? Another Mara one, and Luke c. 5 ABE? Released in the year 2024??

    Dude. Amazing.
  12. Darth Vectivus

    Darth Vectivus Jedi Padawan star 3

    Dec 9, 2023
    I think Dave Filoni is going to turn Joruus C'baoth into a Proto Snoke and not a Clone of a former Jedi with the Bad Batch storyline EU Thrawn trilogy is still a classic i recommend any Star Wars fan to try reading that story at least once the comic adaptations were also good
    Fredrik Vallestrand likes this.
  13. DarthYan

    DarthYan Jedi Master star 2

    Jun 17, 2009
    Zahn might buy a little into the "empire creates order" but he at least recognizes that the Empire was still a dictatorship that suppressed freedom. As such he still sees democracy as the better option, since it allows freedom. Even in HOT the attempted diplomacy to resolve the underlying issues is painted as good.
  14. DarthYan

    DarthYan Jedi Master star 2

    Jun 17, 2009
    I can get seeing Zahn’s work as flawed. Some things haven’t aged well and he fell too much in love with Thrawn. But arguing that he’s some crypto fascist who has no talent is just childish
  15. PowBasilisk

    PowBasilisk Jedi Padawan star 1

    Jan 4, 2024
    Exactly, and the falling too in love with Thrawn thing happened later IMO
    Jedimarine likes this.