Honesty is the Best Policy: Constructive Criticism... (9/8) Looking for new thread manager!

A few tips I've had said to me from my small armada of past betas over the years:

Don't rely on italics or fancy shmancy bolds and whathaveyas, if you put this up on a site that emails things out as text only, you're up the creek. It doesn't take much to just spell out he/she/it thought, and if you're getting paid by the word, go with the more words and rack up a couple more pennies.

Don't hesitate to go all out with descriptive words, but don't end up whipping out the obscure ones that'll make readers go digging for a dictionary. We all know you know the $20 words, just don't show it off. King doesn't do it and Barker barely gets awayw with it as it is.

Keep in mind what's verbally possible. It's physically impossible for someone to hiss 'I'll kill you'. Try hissing that one out yourself and you'll see it doesn't work, just like no one can moan out a full sentence. A couple words, yes. Full sentence, not a chance no matter how good it looks in type. Same goes for purring. (That last one I still flub up)

 

solojones: I'd just glance through the thread and see who has responded saying they've had feedback, most have not I think. I'd rather not see who has or hasn't gotten CC listed on the first post because I think part of the point of the thread is to have constructive crits from *various* points of view. Also, putting a note saying this person has had some CC already makes it look to newcomers like they no longer want any. Which is likely not true.

To help, I'll say who I've sent CC to so far...

dianethx
zane-marit

I'll edit this post when I've done more.

sg

 

Great tips!! I'm going to read over them again in more detail this weekend. As for listing those who have received feedback in the first thread, I did consider that but honestly I do not have enough time right now to keep it up and I will have to agree with spiritgurl's comments about it. However, it would be good to keep a list of who has received feedback for those of us who want to make sure others are not being forgotten. Maybe someone would like to be in charge of that, watching when people post that they've had feedback and occasionally letting the rest of us know who has and who hasn't. Any volunteers?

Oh, and I will update the index again this weekend.

 

Well, I see sg's point as well, though. We do want various people to give CC and we don't want to make it seem like there's no place for more reviews.

I did have a different idea, though. For specific stories listed, might it be a good idea to give a short summary, even just to list the characters/situation? I thought that if you're really looking for someone with different points of view, this would make it easier for that to happen.

Or maybe I'm just being AR

Sadly I haven't been able to give any CC yet as this is the end of the schoolyear and finals and projects and such I plan on getting to it ASAP< as I actually enjoy doing it a lot. I know, I'm weird.


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

an update on thoughts: I did a bit of "googling" on the subject and came up with several different sites that said it's acceptable to use 'apostrophes', italics, or *stars* for thought in stories. One actually discouraged using italics stating codes could become a problem on the net depending where you post.

solojones & kettch:Usually the author has posted some info about the story in the first post of the link, if they haven't they should. But perhaps just a note on who the main characters are would be a good idea. I actually wouldn't mind seeing something listed in the first post on how long a story is, as I can whip through short stories fairly quickly but the longer ones take me a while. (duh...obviously) But I don't know what's long and what's short until I start exploring the links.

Kettch: good idea, I'm going away this weekend and won't be back until Monday but if no one else has volunteered for that by then, I'll see what I can do when I get back.

sg

 

Okay, I'll use this post to let people know who I've sent CCs to.

And here's my summary of The Draigon's Lair Anakin Skywalker and Jocasta Nu argue over the use of the library. As the years past, the battle intensifies as Nu reveals why she's been tormenting the Chosen One. Angst and only slightly AU. Fairly short - four chapters - about 10 Word pages long.

My list of CCs sent so far
zero but I'm going to start this weekend.

 

I forgot to mention this before. The women in my three stories are the same woman, just at different points in the time line. I'm using her for a series of stories and am working on the story of how she and Obi become married in detail and building the how is she a judge thing into the story also, I only hint at why they are married in 2 of the stories and the story with the cloak is as the note says only part of the bigger story. As to peach eyes thats part of the mystery behind the character, in case the peach eyes are strange and I am going to try to show that while she is a strong confident Judge, she is unsure of herself as a woman because she was in a emotional abusive marriage and she is Bail's sister. I'm trying to eventually bring a little Law & Order, the WestWing, Scarecrow&Mrs.King, and Hart to Hart into the stories along. I just wanted to put this note in, so that maybe I can get some opinions in how this is going or am I way off base etc. Thanks

Also question, especillay for thoses whose stories I have read and replied to, I wanted to know is since I usually point out in my replies how I like the way you did this part or said this etc. What else are you looking for from me so that I can do a better job for the constructive Criticism pm part, when I read the stories. Even in giving constructive Criticism there is room to grow.

 

A few days ago someone posted the words "cough rip off!!! cough" in my fic and left it at that. the person also has not responded to my PMs, I suggest if you think someone is reusing a concept done before, say it in nicer terms and post a link to what your talking about. the way he did was a baseless heckle that means very little, instead of helping me think of new concepts and ideas.

 

darth2-D2 Just ignore that kind of thing. There are a few trolls running around. Frankly, almost everything ever written could be considered derivative in one form or another. Saying something like ripoff without evidence is poorly done!!!

 

"Yeah, I mean, you have this story with Jedi and lightsabers and that Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader guy...man, I've heard that before! waht a RIP OFF!"



Seriously - sorry to hear about it, Darth2.

-Tim

 

I'll begin CC soon, but right now DRL is back with a vengance

 

"Scarecrow&Mrs.King" - I LOVED that show! lol

Also question, especillay for thoses whose stories I have read and replied to, I wanted to know is since I usually point out in my replies how I like the way you did this part or said this etc. What else are you looking for from me so that I can do a better job for the constructive Criticism pm part, when I read the stories. Even in giving constructive Criticism there is room to grow.

if anyone wants to add to this be my guest.

Things to give Constructive Criticism on...

Pointing out typos and other clear errors is helpful. If there is a million in a story and you don't want/have time to beta for the person too, then I'd just let them know they might want to get one.

If there's something that seems awkard, or confuses or bothers you - either in the dialogue, reaction of a character, plotline, or description of the scene - point it out. Chances are either the writer will be able to explain it to you better, or something needs to be added/tweaked/taken out to correct it.

If you have issue with the way a character has been portrayed (they seem out of character) - point it out. Explain why you feel this way with instances, if possible from the movie/EU that support your take on the character. Keep in mind that not everyone sees characters the same way, however

If the plot seems slow to move or nonexistant - point that out (this is where it's good to give suggestions, if you can, on how to remedy that)

sg

 

Actually, I have a question. What if you are reviewing a story and you really HATE the genre (say it's a Luke/Mara one and you can't stand Mara (I happen to like Mara but it's just an example))? Should you say that up front or just tell the person that you can't review it because the pairing/genre/timeperiod/whatever would make you be more critical? Or do you just try to get past it?

 

I don't know. Obvisously it's good to step outside your rhelm and get advice and give advice on different stories. However, I find that if the genre and the portrayal of it is so much it wants to make me vomit, I can't give any sort of comments because all I would know how to say is something along the lines of a lot of nonsensicle pounding on the keyboard in rage. Definitely not the aim of constructive criticism


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

1) The index has been updated.

2) For those who have given me summaries I have posted a (probably) shortened version of them. If you do not like what your summary says let me know immediately (recognizing that I do not live on these boards. ).

3) If you would like a summary listed with your story then please post one, but if it is longer than a couple of words I will shorten it.

4) Any suggestions on how to make the index more appealing now that the summaries are going to be added would be appreciated.

5) Again I like the tips posted and hope more will appear.

6) There will be a two-story-per-author limit on the list of stories to be critiqued right now as I will be invoved in the fanfic awards coming up. Please pick you favorite two (and you can always be on the list of authors willing to have any story critiqued). If you would like to switch your stories, just let me know.

 

Well I knocked my summary down to a single sentance, albeit a long one. If you can shorten it without making it so vague that there's no point in having it there though, go right ahead.

Evacuation by Bobbacca: Small pockets of resistence struggle to survive in a galaxy taken over by the same alien race that drove the Yuuzhan Vong from their home galaxy. (Far future, Negative Race).

 

Upping this.

I added Seeker of Constructive Critiscism to my sig too.

 

After reading back over the threads that sparked this idea, I wanted to share a positive "constructive criticism" experience.

In December, I was one of the judges for the Winter Fan Fic Contest. I let it be known in the results thread that I would be very happy to go over any entry with its author, to review the piece in depth, a process more like a writing clinic than anything done here on the boards so far. Of the twenty seven writers I judged, only three PMed me to ask for it.

Those three writers got my undivided attention on their story, my honest appraisal of their writing, and my best attempt to help them hone their skills and become better writers. I got the chance to go over the stories in detail, pinpointing what I liked or disliked about each one, which allowed me to examine my own criteria for what I considered good writing. Furthermore, I got to know three really terrific people, whose work I will read at the drop of a hat because they have shown an interest in improving as writers. Even if they may have chosen to ignore all of my advice, they have listened and responded to what I said on the strengths of their writing, and the areas that may need some work. They displayed a willingness to undergo a critical appraisal of their work, and we had an excellent discussion as a result.

It was such a positive experience for me that whenever I judge one of these contests (which I do in real life, too) I will always make that offer.

I wholeheartedly agree it is necessary to point out the strengths of a writer's work when giving constructive criticism, just as it is necessary to couch the criticism in polite language, to be as chary as possible with a writer's feelings. You want them to leave the experience encouraged, not completely disheartened.

All in all, I'd have to say, I'm very happy to see this thread, and to read of all the people willing to utilise the offer to improve as writers! It's great to see so many dedicated to the craft of writing!



*Derisa*

 

I'd like to be added to the author list for Constructive Criticism on any of my stories. Especially since I'm experimenting with some odd styles, I could use someone's honest appraisal of what works and what doesn't. I do write K/J, but I also think I write it fairly and don't make Jag the bad guy. I'd appreciate any help that you have to offer, on any of my stories or vignettes. Thanks tons for starting this great thread!

-Saber

 

This is a great thread. Thanks for sharing it!

I'd like to be added to the author list, too, please. It's amazingly gratifying to hear people praise my work, but I know that I could still have done better. The thing is, though, even if I can read and reread whatever I write over and over again, I still won't be able to catch things that I would have otherwise if I were the reader and not the writer. Only a handful of people have actually given me real CC, and I?m really grateful to them.

So yeah. I echo everyone else?s sentiments on this thread. Sometimes we need a little rough treatment to get us going the direction we ought to.

Merci.

--Den

 

Great idea, Kettch....

And kudos to all of you who agree, especially Herman - always helps to have a mod on board!, that this is a much needed area...

I'm more than willing to submit my writin to constructive criticism - I see a little for one of my stories (From Scratch) but not so much for anything else I've written.

I'm going to have to start sending out critiques -

Just a warning, I borrowed this, without permission, from A Sailor Moon Romance (heh - the place that got me started into fanfiction) and I've found that the critiques I've receives there by following the guidelines have been very satisfying, especially when people take the time to follow them... It's kind of a "guideline for newbies" to writing a critique if you don't know what people are looking for.

Keep in mind, these are made for a board where the critiques can be read before you read the stories... not done in PM.

What a critique shouldn't do:
1) Give spoilers. The critique exists to aid readers in deciding if they'd like to read a particular story.

2)It should not give away major plot occurances or otherwise spoil the story for the reader.

3)Be overly negative. The critique should not be blatantly mean spirited. Writers put their work up on our site of their own free will and should not have to be subjected to unduely harsh attacks.

4)Be overly positive. Do not write a critique simply to say that you 'loved the story'. Doing this accomplishes nothing and will result in your critique being deleted by our moderators.

(5)Critique your own story.

What a critique should do:

1)Give an objective account of various aspects of the story. This includes plot and character development, style, etc.

2)Point out interesting or unique aspects of the story. For example, if the story takes standard characters out of their normal roles, your critique should comment and talk about the way the author has done this.

3)Give some indication of whether or not you liked the story. We do want the reader to know if you, someone who has read the entire story, liked it.



Hope it helps for anyone who wants to critique, but doesn't really know, or what, they should/could be saying to help the author... on top of everything else already mentioned!

(edit) whoops, repeating stuff that's already been said, I'll leave my 2 cents at this!

 

Ah yes, I'd intended to give some CC on the stories posted in the index. I just haven't had time yet I really want to get to that. I'm not sure how successful this was for others the first time around. I know I personally didn't recieve any comments but I wasn't sure if anyone else had. I really hope it can do better here now. I shall do my best to contribute, for whatever it's worth


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

I just learned about this thread.

I would welcome constructive critic to my fic, What if Vader learned about Leia...(moved) .
It's the first time I wrote anything besides summeries for school. And that was a long time ago. Plus, I'm not native in English.

I better tell you that the posts for the story are betaed and run through a spell checker in oposition to what I'm typing down here. So don't shruder in horror on the prospect of having a look at it.

I really would like to improve my writting and my English.

Vadey

 

*bumping this up* I've been swamped lately but has anyone else received or been able to give Constructive Criticism as a result of this thread?

sg

 

As one of those three writers, I want to say that Derisa gave EXCELLENT crit on my holiday piece. She rememebered to pick up on the good stuff, and was kind with the bad. A lot of the problems she pointed out definitely WERE problems. SOme of them were even things that I meant to do but rushed over (bad me). And she got me to decide that I really do need to get a beta. Ironic that I beta for other people, but don't have one myself.