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Lit How did Hutts rise to power in the first place?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AllAboutThatMace, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. AllAboutThatMace

    AllAboutThatMace Jedi Knight star 1

    Dec 2, 2014
    So in Star Wars, its been pretty well-established in both the EU and, by all indications, the new canon, that Jabba was in many ways a fairly typical Hutt. That is, the archetypal Hutt is an obese, hideous slug monster with relatively limited mobility and stubby t-rex type arms who nevertheless oversees an extensive criminal empire. Different Hutts might differ slightly in their precise methodology, home base of choice, etc. But, by and large, "Hutt=giant slug Crimelord" is a stereotype that seems to hold true in a lot of cases, to the point that "Hutt Space" is an entire sector of the galaxy entirely ruled by these guys.

    But one thing I've actually never been clear on, is how Hutts amassed all this power in the first place. Yes, they have a reputation for being cunning and ruthless, which is certainly an asset in ruling a criminal empire once you have it. But in becoming a crimelord in the first place, it seems to me that these strengths would be totally outweighed by the simple reality that most Hutts seem so physically inept. I mean, there's a reason that if you look at actual gang leaders and mafia dons, even if they're out of shape late in life, when you look at pictures from when they rose to power they nearly always seem like pretty tough guys. Which makes sense, because in an organization built on brutality and violence, an inability to win a fight is a pretty major drawback if you're trying to climb the ranks and carve out your own power base. As I understand it Hutts are fairly durable do to their bulky anatomy, but they're also very slow and mostly incapable of contributing directly to a fight.

    So how did a species that must rank in the lower tiers of sentient creatures when it comes to average fight capability get to the point where the most common occupation for a member of their race is "Crimelord"?

    I'd be curious if anything either in the new canon or the EU explored this much, or if there are any compelling fan theories that explain it.
  2. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    May 27, 1999
    By hiring others to knock off anyone who'd oppose them.
    jakobitis89 likes this.
  3. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Jan 27, 2015
    Basically, yeah. They're a REALLY old species and even a weak/poor Hutt is probably pretty wealthy by non-Hutt standards, they pay people to do the physical work if they need to and (generally speaking) are smart enough to hire people who are savvy enough to choose long term employment over trying to stiff the Hutts for a quick buck - and they always get revenge if you do. Jabba was willing to let Han pay him back if he could, but he was getting his money's worth one way or the other and other Hutts are the same.

    The other detail is that whilst Jabba is old and fat most Hutts start off being a whole lot quicker and more agile than they look, more like snakes than slugs. And they're pretty strong and ridiculously tough, normal blasters won't stop a Hutt in a bad mood so they can handle themselves in a scrap especially if their enemy judges only on what he sees. Old Hutts do get bloated but if they've made it to that age then they've got the cash to hire the best of bodyguards.
  4. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Jul 7, 2009
    Why should their physical abilities be relevant to their status of crime bosses? It's not relevant in the real world, why would it be in the GFFA? We see in the movies how it works, they hire mercenaries for protection and enforcement, therefore they must have some wealth.
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  5. AllAboutThatMace

    AllAboutThatMace Jedi Knight star 1

    Dec 2, 2014

    Actually most crime bosses in the real world like Al Capone and John Gotti started as violent and feared enforcers. That's how they made their reputation and came to power in the first place. If you take a look at the average old and out of shape mob boss or gang leader, there's a very good chance that when they were young they were an extremely physically dangerous individual.

    Mob bosses who didn't have that sort of background do exist (e.g. Arnold Rothstein), but they are much rarer. In an organization built on violence and driven by a code of extreme machismo, anyone perceived as incapable of holding their own in a fight is starting with some serious obstacles to earning the respect of their peers, let alone a position of authority over them. Regardless of how smart someone is, thugs tend not to respect people who don't seem like tough guys themselves.

    Given that, I find this:

    to be pretty helpful in explaining the Hutt rise to power. No matter how smart and ruthless and long-lived they are, if every Hutt was really as immobile and physically ineffectual as Jabba in ROTJ I'm not sure I could buy them building this vast criminal empire. It makes a lot more sense to me if Jabba isn't really representative of the average young Hutt, but is instead what happens when a Hutt becomes so successful and powerful they can afford to truly let themselves go. He's like Don Corleone in the Godfather, a fat old man not in good health, but if you look at his sons, or at he himself when he was young, you see much more physically dangerous individuals.
    Valin__Kenobi likes this.
  6. march162015

    march162015 Jedi Youngling

    Mar 16, 2015
    I thought I was the only one who wondered that
    Cheerios4u98 likes this.
  7. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn

    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Sep 23, 1999
    While this might technically fit in Saga, I bet you'd get more responses in Lit, especially given the request in the OP for EU and/or Canon-related explanations. Moving.
  8. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Oct 23, 2004
    Not really, he is far more powerful then most Hutts would ever be and especially the EU is full of Hutts of very different type, though yes many are Crime Lords.

    With easy access to technology like a repulsor platform ;)

    Where they are the legitimate government, yep.

    As you mentioned really cunning and ruthless for one, another skill they tend to have is that they are really smart, have really long live spans (10 times as long as a human is normal for a Hutt) and thus really all the time in the world for long running schemes, Hutts also tend to be really good at knowing what other people want and being able to exploit vices in others.

    Hutts are just as apt at using a Blaster then anyway else ;), plus given their physiology they are pretty hard to kill, also essentially immune to poison and diseases. Also a Hutt can always just tail smack someone or crush them with his bulk. Though he really does not need to, he will have minions, people hoping to rise along with him, outlaws who only he will give shelter to, members of species that have been servants of the Hutts for so long it has become almost religious obligation to follow them , simple Slaves that have very little other options, well paid mercenaries etc.

    Thing here is, a Hutt looking to set himself up somewhere will not really integrate into a given power base, he will create the power base for himself, usually with the backing of his relatives and minions he brings along, he will corrupt the local administration, buy out or simply crush other gangs, whilst often also having a perfectly legal business front (Jabba for example was big in shipping, mining and tourism) that will serve his other needs. Though that is even assuming he really is a independent Crime Boss, most Hutts will likely never reach such levels of power, working as administrators or “underbosses” for more powerful Hutts, or in something completely different, in the EU we have seen things like Hutt mechanics, politicians, bar owners, scientists, warlords, pirates, poets, artists etc.

    Just as capable as anyone else of shooting someone or bludgeoning someone to death, they just don’t tend to need to. Btw. the Hutts of Old in the EU actually started out as galactic conquerors, using huge slave armies and high tech battle armour and giant warships to take down hundreds of worlds, which still form the core of “Hutt Space”. They droped the whole thing (or at least most did) after a bloody civil war and figured it is a lot smarter to just try and control the galaxy via economic dominance.
  9. Cheerios4u98

    Cheerios4u98 Jedi Knight star 3

    Mar 4, 2015
    I just wanna know how this guy became a Jedi Knight:

    SateleNovelist11 likes this.
  10. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Oct 23, 2004
    Pretty much like everyone else, he was found, trained and passed the Trial ;)
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  11. Riv_Shiel

    Riv_Shiel Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 12, 2014
    Any one who doesn't think Hutt's can handle themselves in a fight needs to read the fight between Durga and Jiliac in the Crispin Solo books. I sure wouldn't want to run into a Hutt in a dark alley.
    Revanfan1, Kylun, rumsmuggler and 3 others like this.
  12. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jul 24, 2014
  13. mattman8907

    mattman8907 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 17, 2012
    since the hutts are basically like the mafia of the star wars universe, i would guess probably the same way the mafia came into power.
    SateleNovelist11 likes this.
  14. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jun 12, 2009
    Hutt Space is still a thing in canon thanks to Sam Witwer's namedrop in TCW and HTTJ confirmed it's an entire region of the galaxy "galactic east" of the Core Worlds. As for how the Hutts biology works for or against them, well, there's Mama the Hutt as a worst case-example. She can't do much physical work and has to be attended to by droid servants. I assume low-ranking Hutts actually have to do more physical work and have to stay relatively fit. In canon, we've only really seen the head honchos, most of whom were ancient.
  15. The Weird Side

    The Weird Side Jedi Padawan star 1

    Aug 7, 2014
    In EU what happened was they were one of the earliest species to gain a high level of technology. This put them at an advantage over species who were nearby, most of whom were not even the tech level of the late 1800s. They conquered these groups and help advance their standard of living. Through their good organizational and business skills they coordinated the various species in the areas to raise the net benefit of everyone. These species where then very grateful and thought of Hutts as a near god-like species and most pledged service to them. Most of these are aliens we see in Jabba's Palace scenes like Gammoreans, Weequay, Nikto, and Klatooinian come from in or around Hutt Space.

    Its similar to what happens in many shady organizations. The muscle knows it doesn't have the skill to make the proper calls to make lots of money so they hire themselves out as mercenaries, guards, assassins etc. to those people who have the brains.
    jc1138, Gorefiend and Iron_lord like this.
  16. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jul 24, 2005
    Because they eventually become giant killer space butterflies that can create solar winds with their wings. All the Hutts we see outside Hutt space are children doing missionary work.
  17. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jun 12, 2009
    I like the concept of other races relying on the Hutts because they make things benefitial for all, not so much the "slave race" angle. It doesn't really jive with what we see is canon, i.e. Weequay pirates/bodyguards and Nikto law enforcement and fighter pilots.
  18. TK-421 Is vader

    TK-421 Is vader Jedi Master star 3

    Jan 5, 2015
  19. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Oct 3, 2009
    Isn't he described as a more muscular Hutt? Not on his way to become Papa the Hutt?
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  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Sep 2, 2012
    That pic came from The Essential Reader's Companion - the previous pic of him is from The Essential Chronology and is a bit better about depicting him as "pythonlike":

  21. anakincol

    anakincol Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jul 28, 2009
    I have been rereading the essential guide to warfare a bit and as jakobitis said they had tech early. Also at first they were very warlike even amoing themselves. They bumped into the human society of the tion cluster way before either they or the tionese met anyone from the coreworlds. They defeated xim the despot in after several decades of war. At first like in the first battle of vontor they fought the tionese themselves buy eventually during this era they conquered the klatu,niktos and barradans and used them as cannon fodder.
    Gamiel and Iron_lord like this.
  22. Big Fat'Lya

    Big Fat'Lya Jedi Knight star 1

    Jun 16, 2013
    My first post here was a question about Hutts, and making sense of this interesting species. I think a lot of rather clever and intriguing stuff has been done with them in terms of background world-building. That said, I've always considered the Hutts one of the most egregious cases of the "EU takes movie character and makes them representative of their entire race" scenario (see: Rodian bounty-hunters, Bothan spies). Since Jabba is known by the title "the Hutt", and it was confirmed that this is his species, one would think that the reason he was known as such was because Hutts were actually rare in the galactic underworld. That being a Hutt was in fact his most distinguishing characteristic. Instead, Hutts are an entire race of gangsters, meaning we need other explanations for the name (in that thread I started I asked if the fact of Nal Hutta meaning "Glorious Jewel" might make the Hutts the Glorious race, the people of Glory, to which Jabba the Hutt would essentially mean, "Jabba, His Glory", or something like that - his egotistical sense of supremacy is a part of his identity, to the point that to omit it is potentially an insult).
  23. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Sep 2, 2012
    Interestingly, in the Vigo Council scene in Shadows of the Empire, every Vigo is described by the race - Green the Human, Durga the Hutt, Perit the Mon Calamari, and so forth.
  24. Darth_Garak

    Darth_Garak Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jul 28, 2005

    That's not what should frighten you about Beldorian. That Hutt has something way more dangerous and destructive of sanity than a lightsaber and the Force. I still pity the guy he got to edit the whole thing.
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  25. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Jan 10, 2015

    Interesting character. It seems many Hutts turn out bad for some reason. I heard one Hutt was noble and he became chancellor. Not sure why so many Hutts turn out rotten. I'm guessing it's how they're socialized. They encourage their young to be as pragmatic, selfish, and ruthless as possible. Personally, I found Yanth the Hutt interesting in Shadow Hunter. He's a minor character, but I was intrigued by the notion of a Hutt moving fast.

    Let's step on their tails.

    What I found amusing about all this is that Jabba was cooperating. He knows where it's at. He's smart enough not to mess with the wrong people. But as soon as Maul was beaten by Sidious and thrown in jail temporarily, Jabba's Hutt empire abadoned Maul's Shadow Collective. Makes sense. Jabba is a character. He's a sexist pig fo sho. Leia definitely served him some justice.

    I don't think she was just choking him with the chain. I think she unwittingly used a bit of a Force choke along with the chain to double the pain. I'm not the first person to theorize that.