Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by darth_mccartney, Sep 13, 2012.
Leave it out... that's Darth Vader's music... He doesn't come into his own until ESB.
No it does not. Vader is not the man in charge in ANH.
And therefore his music should not be "in charge" in ANH. But Vader IS present in the movie, and therefore, his music should be as well.
No, because it defaltes its appearance in EMPIRE... when Vader IS the man in charge.
Cronologically, the theme has already been explored in the PT
Hell, half the time when it is heard, Vader isn't even there.
Imperial March is for VADER's Empire...
I wouldn't mind having it used when Luke shows some dark side tendencies always alluding to his father's past...
I really really liked the use of the slower deeper version from the start of The Asteroid Field in Adywan's A New Hope Revisited during the Battle of Yavin when the TIEs turn up, but then it went hand in hand with the added TIE fighters giving a greater sense of desperation to the fight.
Exactly!!! Vader is only a henchman in ANH for the Emperor and a stooge to Tarkin. Williams' original motif for the Imperial Forces/Stormtroopers has worked greatly for the last 37 years. Even the 5 bar signature for the Death Star shows that the one score that stands alone whilst introducing themes was the starting point. We only see a fraction of the Imperial navy in ANH, but see the magnitude of the Imperial Navy for all out "seek and destroy" by ESB as Vader had recently been appointed as Commander of the starfleet and this time it was all out war on the Rebel Alliance whilst attaining his obsession of finding Skywalker.
It is stupidity afterall for suggesting such a thing. Kind of like if we swapped Battle of the Heroes for Cantina Band #2 for the Mustafar duel... Cantina Band #2 is more well known so it could work (insert sarcasm here) - maybe Boots Randolph's Yakkety Sax (aka The Benny Hill theme) - that is more well known and would compliment a comedy moment on film.
Do most of you realise that Vader only had 17 minutes of screen time in ANH and less dialogue. So how would The Imperial March benefit that film because the prequels explored the theme? Didn't Lucas already make 3 batches of changes in three different decades starting in 1997 and almost eliminate musical cues that could barely be heard in the 2004 5.1 mix of ANH (The Death Star aerial assault) but also removed John and Joseph's Williams' cue for Sy Snootles and the Max Rebo band (Lapti Nek) in favour of some non-SW sounding crap written by Jerry Hey because Lucas wanted to change it all and claim it's not the way he originally wanted, but was happy with it at the time, thus contradicting his own work/statements that are well documented??
Why mess with something that had always been there?
I can agree with that as it unfolds a continuity issue going "ship to ship" and Ady's version of ANH sits proudly next to the Unaltered OT (in many guises) opposed to the awful Special Edition offerings that collect dust in a box. It is a fan edit though - no... THE BEST fan edit of them all... ;-)
I've always heard that Vader only had 9-10 minutes of screen time (haven't ever bothered to check) - but regardless, I don't see any reason to mess with the Oscar-winning score already in place.
One thing that's always grated for me, as well, is that it's 'The Imperial March' aka 'Darth Vader's Theme'. It's a motif representing the Empire, not just Vader, and its introduction in ESB serves as an indication of the escalation of the GCW, along with Darth Vader's own promotion to head of the Imperial Fleet from a mere 'sinister agent'.
You've also got its proper introduction, chronologically, at the end of AOTC where Palps and the other senators witness the clone army heading off to war - and Anakin, let alone Vader, isn't even present.
Yes, the theme occurs earlier in TPM when Yoda mentions his fears for Anakin's future, and in the garage in AOTC, but the theme is presented in a minor way to foreshadow both the rise of the Empire and Anakin's fall.
There's no real reason to jam it into SW/ANH - the score works beautifully as it is.
I want non-stop foreshadowing. I demand a version of ANH where when Obi Wan and Luke first meet Han, and the phrase "... avoid any Imperial entanglements..." is delivered, Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes begin jamming the Imperial March to entertain the cantina.
Besides that! VADER is not control of the Empire until ESB- where it underscores HIM, there is no use it in ANH... those damn fan edits are now officially out of hand and are worse than any aspect of the SE...
Oh please, it's not that over the top. Well, the way some people insert it, but that's because a lot of the time it is done haphazardly. Be that as it may, it can still be used in the film without altering the tone of the film. It would work better if Williams had new compositions to blend it together.
The Death Star is the true threat in ANH and it has it's own little theme (or motif, if you wanna be technical). Vader's just a lackey in it.
The Imperial March would feel nice dashed into ANH here and there - I'm thinking of Vader's entrance or the death of Obi-Wan - but ultimately I don't see the need, the ANH soundtrack is fine without it. The real question for me is where the original imperial theme from ANH would be cool used elsewhere in the saga. Maybe the battle of Hoth, the betrayal on Bespin, the troops massing on Endor, the reveal of the Clone Army, Order 66... to imagine what could have been is pretty fun.
A short little one. No one is saying take it out, nor the first "Imperial March" theme. But like I said earlier, it wouldn't hurt to hear a bit of Vader's theme when he first steps aboard the Tantive IV. Or during the meeting with the Imperial officers. Bits and pieces like that make sense. If someone were to slap on without thought, then that is an issue.
I dunno...does make sense in the whole narrative arc of the saga. But doing that is almost akin to adding a little Battle of the Heroes during the Kenobi/Vader duel on the DS, or a little of Anakin's theme during Vader's death scene. Makes sense from a thematic point of view, but just doesn't seem right to me.
"Battle Of The Heroes" doesn't quite work as well, because this time the lines between good and evil are more clearly defined, whereas in ROTS, they're supposed to be blurred and ambiguous. Williams had intended the name to be a play on words based on the title crawl which said, "there are heroes on both sides". It was epic and grand since it was designed for that. Same with "Duel Of The Fates". No, for the ANH duel, the music would have to be similar to "Darth Vader's Trap" from TESB. Something slow to match the pacing of the scene, but plays up the sense of impending dread.
I'd probably use the quicker version of it that (iirc) plays in ESB as the Star Destroyers close in on Hoth, when Vader delivers his "tear this ship apart!" line on the Tantive IV.
Nah, that doesn't work. The better option would be "Father And Son" when we hear a brief statement when Vader and Luke come face to face.
I would enjoy seeing it in ANH. But only in the first reveal of Darth Vader on the Tantive IV, just playing the first phrase of the melody quietly. I think that could be effective...
Because things being obvious never happen in Star Wars.
How do you feel about Ben's theme being used before he appears in the film with the twin suns.
Certainly out of place.
Besides the IM first appeared in Anakin's Theme surely?
The larger point is that the IM became bigger than just being Vader's as Ben's became bigger than just being his.