ST "I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it."

Interesting. Though I've never liked the fact that you needed the movie novelisations to know things like this. So be it -- if she said it there then I'll take it.

Though it would be a bummer if the likely first offspring of this generation is born with a darkness...
If only 20 Jedi ever left the Jedi order [according to the PT] then to have Jedi going Dark from the same family every other generation to me means -- time to neuter all the Skywalkers

 

I find that particularly hilarious because lying has always gotten these people in the brush with the dark side in the past (i.e. Anakin lying about him and Padme to everyone, Obi-Wan and Yoda lying to Luke about his father)...guess the tradition just continues on to the next generation! When are they gonna learn! LOL.

 

That was test that Snoke had alluded to.

 

It sounded like he was talking about returning to the light. Especially seeing as how he returned the lightsaber to Han as he said this. But he didn't have the strength to let it go of it. Ren has a conscious and he knows whats right. He acknowledged this as he spoke to Vader's mask about the internal struggle to return to the light.

 

Tremendous analysis, a2d. My friends and I were wondering all about this on the way back home from the theater. While there isn't enough information to say unequivocally that this is the correct meaning of the scene -- or, at least, not without significant debate -- yours is the analysis I'm going to go with.

 

I got a feeling that it was Luke who had sensed that in him when the boy was just a child and refused to train Ben because of that, and in came Snoke, who took in the young Solo so he can teach him instead. Where Snoke came from is a big mystery, the dude looks ancient.

The movie raises a lot of questions, that's for sure. The mention of a girl caught Kylo Ren's attention, as if he might have known who this person might be. I'm guessing he had seen Rey before, but the girl was only a child and had a different name at the time. Maybe I'm wrong about this, I don't know, but I got the feeling that Rey is Luke's kid. The ending sort of hints at that.

 

Thanks for highlighting this - I hope it doesn't get absorbed into the larger Kylo thread, where I suspect it will get swamped out of existence.

He was definitely talking about having the strength to kill Han but though I was 100% spoilt and knew that it was coming, I was convinced for a second or two, that perhaps I was wrong and Ben would turn (great acting by both Harrison and Driver).

What a contrast though (and a deliberate one), to Luke who repeatedly and in the face of the absolute monstrosity that is his evil father, repeatedly and without hesitation, tells Yoda, Obi-wan, Vader and finally Palpatine, that he won't kill his father.

On a side note; killing members of your own family is a method used to estrange child soldiers from their previous lives in many places in the world today. We don't have to look for mythology or films to see how the "dark side" is just an aspect of our sad little psyches..

 

I obviously need to watch this scene again because I did not get the impression that Kylo was conflicted. I thought he was being a sadistic bastard and winding up his old man by pretending to be conflicted. Then when Han had a little piece of hope, he rammed in the lightsaber. He didn't want to just kill Han, he wanted Han to suffer mental torture as he did it. These dark types are diabolical. Obviously we the audience were also supposed to be fooled into believing that he was conflicted, but he wasn't. I didn't notice anything good about Kylo except that he spared Rey's life for some unknown reason. He is all but totally inhuman, worse than Anakin in my view.

 

that could also have been it--i initially got the impression that it was just miscommunication, and that kylo was just trying to resist the light.

 

I haven't even had my second viewing of the film yet, but man it was hard watching knowing that it (Solo's death) was inevitably coming. I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, but it will be easier to swallow the second time around because I won't be wondering when/where/how it will come. For one brief minute I even thought Kylo might turn to the light side and we had all been had...but it wasn't meant to be.

 

I didn't get that. Well, I was spoiled, so I thought the line was about the strength to kill his father.
Some scenes before he had talked to his granpa's mask how he was feeling the pull of the light side, so I think it was a real struggle. Plus, he was in tears. Kylo Ren is not an actor and would not pretend that well just to torture his father.

Plus, he seems really bummed after he kills Han. Weird, right, he should be happy he "passed his test", but, of course, that's not how these things work. He stops for a moment long enough to be shot at. At the forest, in the battle, he seems to be mentally disturbed.

 

Y'all the Visual Dictionary more or less confirms that Ben does indeed know of Vader's ultimate redemption.

 

Yeah. I actually thought Kylo would be redeemed in this trilogy. Probably not.

 

Thank you. That's a bit fascinating and now I question Kylo's motivations even more. Not that I believe the story doesn't work, rather I'm dying to learn more.

I'm in the camp where I definitely saw his conflict between the light and the dark. Thus, the irony of him worshipping Vader, who did redeem himself, is strong.

 

He knows what he has to do = kill Han.
However, he's conflicted in general because deep inside he doesnt want to


I love this movie.

 

The only real power in this scene comes from it being a scenario where Kylo drops his ****** posturing and is honest with Han about what he's feeling. Han just doesn't know what the deed he's referring to really is. No offense to anyone who didn't initially read it that way but I can't imagine the alternatives.

 

"Your friend is quite a mercenary... I wonder if he cares about anything... or anyone."

Epitome of character development IMO.

 

Whoa. Now that you mention it perhaps Kylo did know about Rey. Like you said the mention of a girl led him to have a major reaction. Then when he meets her he says "so you're the girl I've heard so much about". Interesting

 

Yeah I originally thought this was to do with resisting the dark side and returning to the light.

I've got to say, this forum has made me realise how much deeper the plot and characters are than I originally thought and I missed a lot of details in it. Really need to see the film again.

 

What if Kylo Ren is trying to "Finish want Vader started" by becoming powerful enough to destroy Snoke, but feels the only way he can do that is by using the dark side? Maybe he feels the Dark Side is just too strong, so he has to be stronger, and the only way to do that is be filled with hate, hate for himself, which is why he does it?

 

This is tinfoil thinking but something that I considered.

Maybe Han commited suicide, or allowed kylo to kill him.

When leia says that he needs to bring him home, he doesn't know if he can or wants to.
When he talks to him he might realise that he is beyond redemptio n kinda like him. He might have been part of the rebellion but he still is his old smuggler self. He sees to much of himsrlf in him and decides that he hasn't changed so kylo won't /can't change.

Another thing, Han doesn't see himself as a myth or legend, just a typical person, despite him knowing luke. Most people ask about luke.
Kylo though looks up to those myths and legends in Anakin/vader. And the complex he has about living up to vader stems frk han and leia.

 

^ This. Well said- this is the scene in a nutshell.

 

I must be the only crazy then who thought for a moment Kylo Ren/Ben wanted to kill himself. I knew Han was going to die ...but for a moment from the dialogue I thought he was asking for help to end his own life. And maybe in the end by killing his father he did just that.

 

Not necessarily. I don't think Kylo wanted help killing himself, but I also don't think he was happy with what he had just done. Before Chewie shoots him, he's just standing in shock. If he hadn't been shot, and didn't see Finn immediately after, he looked he could have jumped.

That's the thing about Kylo. I don't see him as actually loving the dark. I think he's doing what he does because he's almost brainwashed. He has to convince himself he's doing what right, and I think Snoke is manipulating him into thinking his grandfather is encouraging him. Kylo isn't going to stay evil. I'm willing to bet on that.

 

He meant Han.