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The Mandalorian Imperial Remnants & the First Order

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by Jedi Knight Fett , Nov 22, 2019.

  1. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Assuming Snoke exists at this early point in time. It's only been five years after Sidious's death at Endor.

    Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
     
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  2. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    I think these loose Imperial remnants are just that. Loose interpretations of what used to be. They have always been part of this machine and have no idea what to do now that the machine is gone, so they hang onto what they know, and go about as if nothing has changed. And they need to keep it that way. Not every little group or faction needs to be tied into something bigger, or in this case, something within the saga canon.

    I like the idea of Gideon being a former Moff within the Empire who is now looking to consolidate power for himself. We don't know how long Gideon has had the Darksaber. He may have "conquered" Mandalore when he had the full power of the Empire at his disposal, and is now using his influence of holding the Darksaber to further his own means.
     
  3. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    He could only have gotten the darksaber after Rebels. By after that probably includes after ROTJ and the sequence with Sabine and Ahsoka going in search of Ezra.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
  4. whostheBossk

    whostheBossk Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2002
    Will we see other factions of the Imperial remnants in season 2? I think we will. Discuss.
     
  5. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Well its 5- 6 years after ROTJ and post Aftermath and Uprising/Battlefront . So I don't really expect too much Imperial activity aside from Gideon's forces. So basically I think they'd concentrate on only one warlord's Imp remnant on this show, since his full agenda is unknown and he wants the child for nefarious reasons. Most likely he's either a part of Sidious' contingency and/or connected through the Sith Eternal cult. But if not and he's just some rogue act, I think he'd end up dead since sooner or later he'd run Snoke . Who will eventually show up in one form or another since he easily consolidates and unites all the Imperial factions in the end forms the First Order. People like Gideon , Andelhard, Thrawn, Palleon, Sloan and Hux are all inconsequential really to the movieverse - just bit players..
     
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  6. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    With this new episode revealing what can be said is 90% an early clone of Snoke and the show showing early signs of the First Order. I thought maybe we could discuss it here and speculate.





    This shows that it is heavily implied to be the origin story of how Palpatine and his empire might have made Snoke, With having high midi-chlorian blood to help create a force sensetive, maybe it needs someone like the child, and the skywalkers to make it a success. The new republic seems to be getting slowly involved, with Cara Dune stories it seems. Maybe Gideon creates to much noise.
     
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  7. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval TV Screaming Service / FFS! star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Crossposting for this thread's mileage:
    Dooku believed he was accomplishing one thing while he was serving a completely different purpose.

    As did Grievous. As did Snoke. As did Kylo Ren.

    Gideon is probably another in a long pattern.
     
  8. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Gideon might be like Tarkin, where he allows him freedom to think he's the master off his own thing and forces, but like Gideon if Palpatine wanted he would kill Tarkin without a second thought. He considered to kill Thrawn his best admiral.
     
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  9. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    It almost seems like Gideon does have something to do with the first order
     
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  10. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Reminded me of Alien auResurrection and TFU II.

    Sounded more like they were injecting test subjects with Midiclorians harvested from The Child. The subjects mutated and died or whatever.

    Snoke is technically pre-Empire, his origin goes back to the Clone Wars era but TROS kinda retconned it to some degree, so that is kinda up in the air. Clone Palpatine and the Sith Eternal created Snoke in any case according to TROS, so its likely that Gideon belongs to the Sith Eternal. Is he Force sensitive himself , or has he been injecting him with Midiclorians to enhance his abilities, we don't know. But either is possible at this point.


    The idea of injecting midiclorians and creating cyborg super soldiers goes back to the EU story of the creation of Grievous. But the injections did not make him Force sensitive, its unknown how this plays out on The Mando, provided this the way they do go
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  11. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    this is closer to the opera scene score than to Snoke's theme. There's no real melody, it's more of an accompaniment. For Snoke, the chanters sing a specific melody. Could it be a musical hint? sure. Both tie back to Palpatine anyway... sigh.




     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
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  12. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    sorry for the DP, but let's also not forget they consciously chose to include the Resistance theme in episode 10. I'm strongly convinced these are First Order shenanigans.

     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  13. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval TV Screaming Service / FFS! star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
  14. Saturn830

    Saturn830 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2019
    I really hope that Gideon and co are their own thing and not just directly working towards the plot of tRoS. They might have some connective strings to the First Order and Sith Eternal, but ultimately this show was billed and became successful as a largely standalone story and it should stay that way. Same thing with the theory that this is turning into Filoni's official followup to Rebels- having some of those characters play a part when it makes sense is fine and even exciting but Mando should never become a background character in his own show. If we're to get an official followup on Ahsoka, Rex, the Ghost crew and Thrawn, it should be its own thing.

    I seriously doubt anything but a small fraction of the remaining Imperial forces were actually ever at Jakku. The Empire was a galaxy-spanning regime and even if there were ten times as many ships at Jakku as at Endor and a thousand times as many Stormtroopers that still leaves a whole lot of Imperials unaccounted for. Given that we see in Aftermath and Lost Stars that the Empire was having a really hard time consolidating its forces under a single leader and even Sloane was only the leader of the largest splinter faction. Most likely the majority of Imperial forces were at that point under the control of Moffs or Admirals who were holding back their forces either to wait and see which side won or just go full warlord.

    Even after Jakku we know there was a significant Imperial presence in the Core and Inner Rim - which was bound by the GC but still existed as an independent faction - and numerous warlords who did not recognize the NR and weren't expected to be brought to heel for some time.

    Congratulations.

    I can't imagine Palpatine popping back to 'life' immediately; at least not in any form where he had real influence. If he had he could have just revealed himself immediately after Endor before the Imperials became to fragmented and effectively carried on as before. I have to think it took some time for him to gather his... essence, or whatever. Like another famous dark lord in modern fiction who resurrected himself (actually two, and there are probably more I'm not thinking of).
     
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  15. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I've just defaulted to thinking that Giddeon is working for the First Order, hell he could be running it for all we know back from the Unknown Regions because from the TLJ novelization Snoke basically came out of nowhere. I'd be disappointed if he didn't have an FO connection by this point.

    Speaking of which, what's the Rebels Dark Trooper episode? That needs to be rewatched.
     
  16. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    The show has grown past the standalone story. It’s bringing in pre existing characters left and right why not tie it to the ST even more
     
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  17. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 15, 2018
    Like a certain youtuber says, it's the Filoni verse, all tv shows will have his fingertips on it, except maybe Cassian, tough he could help there too. I fully expect all future live action series to going more into canon then the movies ever did.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  18. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    If you want a stand-alone story Obi Wan is probably going to be the show for you.
     
  19. obi_kenobi_24

    obi_kenobi_24 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2003
    This shows honeymoon period will come to an end when/if the STs detractors are repeatedly hit over the face with story elements from those movies...I suspect they'll still have a good audience and people stick with the show just out of their love for the cuteness factor of Baby Yoda....

    But the period that we have been living in where everybody has pretty much been universally on board with The Mando will come to an end the more they play around with elements of the ST.....Because the show has largely been cruising in the open air with a story thats detached from all the sagas baggage.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
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  20. The Chalk Jedi

    The Chalk Jedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Please let Gideon be his own character and not yet another pawn. Thrawn and other warlords too please.
     
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  21. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    There’s nothing yet solidifying that Gideon is “First Order.” In fact, we have dialogue contradicting it, when he says “Long live the Empire.” This doesn’t mean he doesn’t end up falling under that tent much later (or being eliminated if he doesn’t cooperate). But for now, he’s likely one of many Imperial holdouts whose story will likely eventually connect to the ST.

    But there’s absolutely no good reason to narrow all post-Imperial activity down to “First Order and Sith Eternal” this early in the post-OT timeline. There’s simply too much rich story and world-building potential to a galaxy under NR rule, but with Imperial warlords disrupting the peace on the margins. Can’t for the life of me understand why some fans would want to dramatically simplify the situation at this stage. That would ruin the uniqueness of the post-ROTJ/ pre-TFA world considerably, and essentially replicate the dynamics that already exist at the start of TFA. Keep this era unique. And one strong way to do that is to maintain multiple Imperial holdout (and criminal) antagonists, while slowly building towards the world we know in the ST/ Resistance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  22. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    I think his remnants and the first order will tie in the future. But for now they are seperate, But Gideon is aprt of the First Orders origin. We know That Faveru and Filoni has teased of it, plus with Faveru GOT approach to storytelling, i could see plot thread of Gideon's empire and the first order, the mandalore arc, baby yoda being be with his poeple, wether it be his specie or the jedi and then Snoke, who we cuold see as hidden villain slowly getting teases of and cameo in the later seasons I think this is one of the questions that season 3 or 4 will awnser.
     
  23. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Gideon being connected to the embryonic First Order origin story is almost a given. But that’s very different than already being First Order and having access to the UR (which I’m sure he doesn’t).
     
  24. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Yeah, he is not apart of the first order, he might have connections and contact with them. And he might think it's suicide to go into the unknown regions as it's dangerous to use hyper space there when you don't know the hpyer spce lanes there.
     
  25. Kowakian Kebab

    Kowakian Kebab Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 2020
    I think it's Season 3 Episode 17 with Thrawn going toe to toe with them.

     
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