Insider 89: "Underworld: A Galaxy of Scum and Villiany" by Abel, Ryan, and Joe

The cost is reasonable. It's usually not any more expensive than the Star Wars (UK) magazine <rant> (unfortunately this is the standard magazine that gets shipped to newsstands out here. Its content pretty much just clones that of the Insider, though lags a few months behind - quite useless really. it doesn't even have glossy pages) </rant>

If Insider brings back HoloNet News, then heck, i'd pay anything for it .

 

Ris_jSarek: Well, the Conner net maneuver itself wasn't, but him rallying the Taanab space force and leading them in the mopping up action afterward probably demonstrated the necessary leadership qualities to put him in command. I admit, it doesn't seem like much . . . but really, does it make any sense *at all* to give military command of all starfighter forces in the fleet to a man with less than a year of service in your military, regardless of his command record? Especially when you've got guys like Wedge Antilles still on the payroll?

Well, from what I can see here, all the sources for the Battle of Tanaab are in-universe...

And it's Janson's homeworld. So surely there's a link to be made there...

I just wish I could get that first point through some people's heads. "Fact" in a fictional universe is malleable at the hands of its creators, so figuring out what's likely to be the "truth" is often as much a matter of knowing what an author or artist is likely to do as it is knowing what has already been done.

Agreed. Much as I'm a completist, much as I like what happens when you juxtapose different fragments of continuity, and much as I'm amazed by how much sense it can make, some things are just too much - the number of run-ins with bounty hunters on Ord Mantell, for instance.

Some things just won't be fixed - Daye Azur-Jamin being a Duro in Star by Star, Tresina Lobi switching from Chev to Chevin and back again, or the continuity snafu between Dark Journey and the start of Allston's duology... though I plan to try very hard with that last one one of these days...

In an ideal world, though, I'd agree with you - everything, absolutely everything, should be in-universe.

The truth is what each fanboy wants it to be, after all...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Who?

There is a brief reference to the Marvel-class Mandalorians in Underworld.

I imagine some folks probably cried foul when Tank was revealed. I always liked the idea he'd be a big black guy. So it goes.

Good point. I saw you write that blog, j.

What, you've never seen yellow blood?

I remember that, and it was definitely surprising. Cross-references in those days were few and far between. I think Archie Goodwin threw in a ref to the Fondor shipyards from the newspaper strips in one Marvel issue, but that was his own work.

Thanks for the kind words, Bootleg. Glad to hear you were inspired. Underworld was a neat project with a lot of attitude, a nice change of pace.

I really like that one too. And I just love the one of Xizor, BoShek, and the Dancing Goddess. What a mish-mash of different stories!

Take care,
Abel

 

I think you're supposed to call the doctor when that happens...

 

About that Dancing Goddess...it seems to have a long and interesting history that is somewhat contradictory. I'll have to dig out my Marvels and that one Jabba's Palace article in Insider and see if I can make a timeline of who has had it and when...

Oh, and by the way:

Just wanted everyone to know that I called it.

>I think Archie Goodwin threw in a ref to the Fondor shipyards from the newspaper strips in one Marvel issue, but that was his own work. <

The Fondor shipyards were originally mentioned in the Han Solo novels by Brian Daley. So in the daily strips Goodwin was expanding on what Daley had written, and wrote the Fondor yards into the Marvel comics--quite a cross-reference there, I would say. Mannings "spy-eye" probes also got a Marvel reference, and then there's all the Holiday Special cross referencing that went on...

TC

 

Darn SWFA insider trading. I shall sic the dreaded business beasts from the moons of Mima on you!

Manning, Goodwin, and Daley remain some of my favorite authors. IMHO, their early work is still among the best of the EU. And all the cross-continuity you mention makes it even better.

 

>Darn SWFA insider trading. I shall sic the dreaded business beasts from the moons of Mima on you!<

Oh yes, that's right, it couldn't just be a lucky guess, now could it? I swear, those guys don't tell me anything; they don't call, they don't write...

Ok, so here's the Dancing Goddess history:

Unknown Date: Jabba the Hutt steals the Goddess and the Minstrel from the people of Godo (Who's Who in The Max Rebo Band)

Unknown Date: Prince Xizor obtains Goddess, loses it. (Underworld)

Unknown Date: BoShek retrieves the Goddess in order to pay off a debt to Xizor. (Underworld)

Circa 5 BBY: Lando Calrissian obtains the Minstrel and the Goddess in a game of chance from an unknown person. (Marvel)

3 ABY: The pirates Lemo and Sanda plot to steal the Minstrel and the Goddess. One of their crew, Dafi, takes the Minstrel from Lando Calrissian. The Goddess remains in Lando's possession. (Marvel)

4 ABY: Following the death of Jabba the Hutt, Doda Bodonawieedo steals the Goddess and the Minstrel from Jabba's townhouse and sells the statues back to the Godoans for an obscene price. (Who's Who in The Max Rebo Band)

4 ABY: After Lemo and Sanda attempt to force Han Solo to aid them in obtaining the Goddess, Lando gives the Goddess to Drebble on Keyorin. (Marvel)

4 ABY: When the planet Godo is struck by a plague, Han and Lando have to retrieve the statues in order to fix the machine that is running Godo. They convince Drebble to give up the Goddess, and buy back the Minstrel from Lemo and Sanda, and return the statues to Godo. (Marvel)

So...that Who's Who article really throws a clog in the works. The only way I can see to fix it is to assume that Jabba had his statues replaced by fakes at some point, or that there is more than one set of statues...

TC

TC

 

No glossy PAGES?! ARgh!

I'd love that too.

My mind has often returned to this buried quote about Taanab from the Jedi Academy Sourcebook, "[Captain] Mullinore is a native of Taanab, and like many people from that planet, is very formal and proper at all times." Superficially a stark contrast to the farmers Lando saved. In any case, I think there's something there to play with.

The Goodwin/Manning strips and Mission to Ord Mantell, while the Marvel encounter could have happened anywhere. Am I forgetting any?

Hmm.

Good call on the Fondor shipyards. I wanted to say it went back to the Solo books, but I chickened out.

Take care,
Abel

 

The Rookiee: Rendezvous webstrip.

Oh and congrats on another successful article Abel (and Ryan), I really enjoyed reading Underworld . And Joe, the picture of Lando playing sabacc is classic.

 

I think Abel means the encounter(s) Han was speaking of in ESB.

There's also Czethros, from YJK, but IIRC an exact date isn't given for his confrontation with Han.

I was actually speaking, in a round about way, about JMM's "marvelous" hint from the beginning of the thread. Abel -(vast fanboy conspiracy)-> JMM -(hint)-> TalonCard -("lucky guess")-> Correct Answer!; all three of you have something to do with SWFA. No slight was intended.

 

Too late. You're on the list. Watch out. You won't know when, you won't know where, but it's coming.

"Vast fanboy conspiracy"? You have no idea...

 

Right, Bollux was activated at Fondor.

 

>The Goodwin/Manning strips and Mission to Ord Mantell, while the Marvel encounter could have happened anywhere. Am I forgetting any?<

Goodwin had not one, but two encounters with bounty hunters on Ord Mantell, which actually kind of justifies any further adventures on Ord Mantell. Then there was Daley's Rebel Mission audio drama, Denning's Scoundrel's Luck, and finally, as mentioned, Czethros, though oddly enough that one acknowledged the previous bounty hunters as well.

It's since been stated (databank and young adult TESB novel) that it was the final encounter with Skorr that made Solo decide to go back to Jabba (since he was the first one created, it seems right and proper), though I like to think that Han was nonspecific about "that bounty hunter on Ord Mantell" because he had run into so many bounty hunters there, and he was trying to irk Leia.

It's worth noting that Han understood that paying off Jabba wouldn't do him any good at this point--in the audio drama, he states that Jabba has a grudge against him; it's not about the money anymore. So Han was basically sacrificing himself. It's never been explained how Han expected to pay him back, in light of the many times he's lost that Rebel reward from ANH. It would seem he expected to pay with his life.

TC

 

Hey, I didn't realize Cynthia Martin did that one.

Archie was and always will be the man.

Thanks Talon. It sounds like the problem mostly stems from that reference to Doda stealing the statues after Jabba's death. Also, I think it's fuzzy whether Xizor actually owned the statue prior to the depiction of BoShek giving it to him.

 

Ryan_Kaufman:

I always liked continuity best when it tied two mythical elements together in an equally mythic moment. Like, Jason inviting Hercules along to adventure in the Argo. Those two characters never needed to occupy the same mythic space, but put em together and it gives some texture to the ancient world.

100% agreed. In a Star Wars context, I remember when I got the original Essential Chronology, and just spent hours reading and re-reading it, because all of the little parts were finally brought together with well-hidden seams. Trioculus and Isard, Katarn and Tharen, the Hand of Thrawn and the Young Jedi Knights, they all had a place here. That was also the first place I ever saw the first galaxy map, and I spent almost as much time pouring over it for much the same reasons - I mean, Roon was mapped in the same galaxy as the Ison Corridor, the Kathol Sector, the Senex and Juvex sectors, and Byss.

I think this is why I enjoy the otherwise mediocre made-for-TV movie The Gambler Returns. It includes a bunch of characters from old TV westerns all coming to the same poker game. Even though I'd never watched those westerns, there was still some appeal to seeing them all brought together.

Halagad_Ventor:

I imagine some folks probably cried foul when Tank was revealed. I always liked the idea he'd be a big black guy. So it goes.

Aye. Actually, Making Janek a big black guy probably wouldn't have been a bad idea . . . God/dess knows the GFFA, and the Empire in particular, could use a few more minorities in big roles.

Just so long as his backstory didn't have him moving to Tatooine from Socorro. ;-P

Good point. I saw you write that blog, j.

::::Scratches head:::: You have? I've been *promising* to write that blog for a while, but it's still sitting only about a tenth of the way completed on my hard drive back home (seems the more I have a life, the less time I have to blog). Maybe you're thinking of the "preview" I gave to Karen Traviss here?

 

perhaps Xizor thought he owned it, then discovered that his was a fake, and hired BoShek to get the real deal, and BoShek slipped the fake onto Doda..

 

Jabba, actually, since Doda stole it from him (or his estate, rather...)

>Aye. Actually, Making Janek a big black guy probably wouldn't have been a bad idea . . . God/dess knows the GFFA, and the Empire in particular, could use a few more minorities in big roles.<

Very true, and it's mostly the EU that's to blame for this--Lucas seemed to make each Star Wars film more diverse than the last...

TC

 

The "w" and the "y" keys are sooooo close on the keyboard.

I say, I say old chap!

 

Mr. Peña (or do you prefer Jedi Ventor...?): My mind has often returned to this buried quote about Taanab from the Jedi Academy Sourcebook, "[Captain] Mullinore is a native of Taanab, and like many people from that planet, is very formal and proper at all times." Superficially a stark contrast to the farmers Lando saved. In any case, I think there's something there to play with.

Any chance you can work in Wes, Lando, and the second-most-important sentient species on Svivren...?

The Goodwin/Manning strips and Mission to Ord Mantell, while the Marvel encounter could have happened anywhere. Am I forgetting any?

I think TalonCard got them all, but I remember there was a thread on this on RASSM... years ago... maybe we need to start a dedicated thread, campaigning for at least one new story on this every year...?

Which was Fett involved in again?

TalonCard: It's worth noting that Han understood that paying off Jabba wouldn't do him any good at this point--in the audio drama, he states that Jabba has a grudge against him; it's not about the money anymore. So Han was basically sacrificing himself. It's never been explained how Han expected to pay him back, in light of the many times he's lost that Rebel reward from ANH. It would seem he expected to pay with his life.

It's Han logic. I'm not sure I quite have the right words to explain it, but... I don't think he's really got any specified plans beyond "pay the Hutt back", although there's all sorts of chaotic possibilities involved. Perhaps it's because it is so crazy, it might just work...?

And, I mean, it does work, even though he never actually gets round to giving Jabba the money: the intention is there in the Falcon's hold. The OT is the story of how Han resolved his situation with Jabba, and got the girl, with Luke tacked on the side, and the battle of Endor duck-taped to the end...

And I wonder what he did with it all afterwards. I guess this may be why we never see him do an honest day's work again...?

jSarek: Just so long as his backstory didn't have him moving to Tatooine from Socorro. ;-P

Janek Sunber = Korto Vos?

And randomly, because it's too small for a post or thread of its own: is Artoo a small Abominor?

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Many thanks, Arthur.

Scoundrel's Luck is the one I'd forgotten.

Pretty snide.

Such pathos.

I enjoyed Alan Moore's League of Extraordinary Gentlemen for much the same reason.

Many thanks, Arthur.

Scoundrel's Luck is the one I'd forgotten.

Pretty snide.

I'm a fan of gender and racial diversity in Star Wars, because it's an easy method of injecting an element of unpredictability, however slight. Counter-intuitively, in college I ran a newspaper that, at its best, was an island of complex conservative thought. Few things are more noble than crushing dogma.

 

Counter-intuitively, in college I ran a newspaper that, at its best, was an island of complex conservative thought.

Such a thing exists?
I loved the article, guys. I feel that the EU of late, while great, has focused a bit too much on the Jedi and the government and neglected the little guy and the criminal, certainly important figures in the SW Universe.

 

Either's fine. Abel's good too.

Since the form of the answer always reflects the question: there's always a chance.

I wonder if Lucasfilm would ever go for that. Han already has a version of the perpetual joke in the form of "Who shot first?"

The Skorr encounter. Incidentally, I believe the reason the YJK bounty hunter is said to have had an encounter with Han on Ord Mantell is because he was *meant* to be Skorr, until it was realized at the 11th hour that Skorr was DEAD.

Hmm, that makes sense, actually. To me, anyway.

Popeye: "He's a Sith abominoration! Uckckckckckck!"

 

I wondered about that once or twice The similarity between Skorr and Czethros is striking, though for some reason Czethros has green hair.