Jaina vs. Tsavong Lah (DW Spoilers)

Uh...how about some nice oranges?

 

Is it not implied that only the greatest and most dedicated of warriors manage to ascend the ranks in the Yuuzhan Vong military caste? That is the impression I have garnered through reading these novels.

I worked out the best tactitions would end up leading. Maybe he was a great fighter a long time ago, but no proof of NOW.


So to you Valyn,
[image=http://www.geocities.com/reaperfett/eatapple.txt]

 

That looks like a scene from "Germany's most disturbing home videos"...

 

Valyn raises the key issues that only culminate in Destiny's Way, but essentially he's not the first. We've all raised his points over the months and debated its various merits.

Traitor changed Jacen. By what Tweety did to him, she taught him not to curl into a fetal ball and cry for Mummy (not Mommy) when you're being tortured, physically or mentally. Jacen can now do what no Jedi has been able to since the invasion commenced: he can sense them as he would in the Force.

Jacen would have made stripped traladon steak out of Mr Lah.

And if you notice what he did in Balance Point, he didn't have to have his Vongsense for that. By defeating this allegedly great Warmaster in martial combat, all he had to do was knock an object into his opponent, what no Jedi has really bothered to do in combat, have they?

If you had something telekinetically hurled at you, wouldn't you also go tumbling out of the window? That Balance Point standoff was laudable, but it was not true combat, warrior way.

As for Jaina's in-your-neck-stab, we'll just have to assume Lah had none of his inbuilt scales there. And do recall, aside from whatever she did in SBS, this was still Jaina's first few saber fights. All the poor girl does is hold flightsticks, she rarely weilds her other stick.

As for Nom Anor, he had two personas in Traitor: a stuttering weakling when with Vergere; and a coolly self-confidant player when not in her feathery presence. I had a hypothetical theory on that: Tweety manipulated him to be the stuttering indicisive Nom Anor he was in Traitor, to give Jacen time to muck up the dhuryams' party, then, after such prolonged hesitation, did Anor let her go stop him. But don't fear for his life. Traitor ended with just that impression: that he was indeed in mortal peril at the magnitude of his blunder. But that was not the case in DW.

As a possible, but farfetched theory, it fits well. Lah's tactical incompetence does not.

Only in the Balance Point, SBS, Enemy Lines and Destiny's Way books did he have expanded roles. Shall we say five books is plenty of time for writers to show his alleged tactical and martial valour? His battles at Duro and Coruscant were won through overwhelming numbers, not any ingenuity. Czulkang himself, said to be wise and Thrawnish, reacted to Wedge, never proacted in any competent sense.

True, Lah was giving orders at Ebaq 9, but what were they really? All he did was give the battle groups orders to engage; he didn't fight strategically.

In short, some authors nail Anor down perfectly, some don't have the same touch. It had to be Jaina, not Jacen, to make the fight longer and fair. Jacen is now more than just lethal. And with another hotheaded Lah out of the way---for us---lets wait and see what happens in Remnant. After all, these are the same players who gave us the Evergence Trilogy masterpiece. You never know!

 

It had to be Jaina, not Jacen, to make the fight longer and fair. Jacen is now more than just lethal.

I suppose I can't disagree with that.

 

Oh come on. You can't compare Lah to Ackbar. There is a HUGE difference between Yuuzhan Vong and Mon Calamari culture. The Vong as a race are violent. Even priests are taught with some warrior skills. For Lah to have become Warmaster and STAY that way does imply that he is a skilled warrior.

 

For Lah to have become Warmaster and STAY that way does imply that he is a skilled warrior.

I agree with that too. Merit may have gotten him the position of Warmaster (though it sometimes doesn't appear so ), but to get to that position I think it's certain he would have had to show fighting skills. I get the impression that unless someone can at least hold their own, the Yuuzhan Vong don't have any respect for them.

 

I'm sure Tsavong Lah could hold his own in combat with most normal beings, but I don't think he was the best. Combat probably was important to his rise to warmaster, but I think his skill as a tactician and strategist were more important. Let's take a look at Domain Lah. It is a family known for its tactical expertise.

Czulkang Lah - legendary tactician that trains up-and-coming warriors in the art of strategy

Khalee Lah - a good warrior, but not much of a mind for tactics

Maal Lah - supreme commander and architect behind the capture of Borleias and Coruscant

Qah Lah - shot by Nom Anor, not much else to say

Qurang Lah - talented commander that, had he not been recalled, would have conquered Yag'Dhul

Tsavong Lah - warmaster that captured Duro and Coruscant. Despite being lured into a trap (not any fault of his own), he managed to salvage the remains of his forces and still inflict considerable damage to the New Republic fleet.

As you can see, most of the Lah's we've really gotten to know are better tacticians than they are warriors. Despite Tsavong Lah's 'throw all your forces at them' approach, he still got the job done on all but one occasion.

 

While I actually enjoyed Destiny's Way, not only because it finally answered Vergere, it dashed to hopes the last chance to see Lah portrayed as he should be.

Back to what I said in my above post, Tsavong is of course a great warrior, a Warmaster of title---but readers have never seen him display it!

Look at the many times we could have . . .

When Lah needed a replacement leg, first mention was in Rebirth where he fought a created beast for its leg to use. We were just told that, we didn't see his fighting prowess.

When the Sunulok over Coruscant was destroyed, Lah had to remain unseen for the rest of the epic battle to give reader the impression he was dead. At the end, we find out he had been on the Kraatak.

Another waste of fighting prowess we didn't see was in the duel with Jacen. A blow by a flying object, and Lah is knocked out a window. Simple. But that was not a fight.

Rooting out the shaper/priest conspiracy in Rebel Dream was not ingenuous. If Yim hadn't been ameniable---of course she wouldn't dare---he's have been stuck.

And finally, the last chance to show he can fight naval tactics strategically, Lah never did. In Destiny's Way, all he really did was order his battle groups forward. He was the central coordinator, true, but no more than a meathead, with fattings included. And you gotta admit: what is the point in having villians who, by and large, are all hotheaded fanatical, who are nearly all identical templates.

At least Thrawn, Daala, Zsinj, Nil Spaar, Sal-Solo, Krennal and Isard all had their themes and personalities. The Vong we are getting, still getting, are not very apart from each other. And before anyone can say "that's how they are as a species in general", that counterpoint is useless to use. Why limit your writing depth, why Interdictor Cruiser your limits with people and their culture that cannot be unique in their own way?

PS.

Thrawn: tactical
Daala: ruthless, brawn before brain
Zsinj: jolly businessman, with solid long term vision, not that it helped!
Nil Spaar: vampiric and ruthless, with political savvy
Sal-Solo: drunk as a skunk
Krennal: sycophantic
Isard: cunning, charismatic, cold

 

I still stick by the statement that got me into your sig. I wouldn't take it so far as to spitting on people, though. If we had been intended to act like llamas, we'd be furrier.

 

Uh, I didn't understand that.

 

He's talking about Valyn's signature.

?Valyn is so right.? - Esplin9466

 

Hey! I hadn't noticed that. Quite funny.