ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

I think they did a good job with the costuming. My favourite is The Force Awakens costume, but I do like the new helmet and bulkier cape with hood in The Rise of Skywalker.

 

We never saw him wear the hood.

 

TFA one is my favorite cause such Jon Snow effect

 

TFA.

 

First off, the line is "She did not mourn Kylo Ren. She would never mourn Kylo Ren. But she dearly would have loved the chance to get to know Ben Solo."

Secondly, Kylo and Ben are the same person, and Rey saying what she said is her saying that she would only accept Kylo after he came over to the Light - that's not a bad thing, either, becuase Kylo/Ben while he was aligned with the Dark Side was a horrible, evil person of inflicted great pain upon the galaxy and followed a philosophy that fed on hatred, fear and anger. So heck yeah she was only perpered to accept him after he switch - but if she's a "judgemental little oink*" then so was Padme in ROTS and Luke in ROTJ.

Thirdly, Beauty and the Beast is not Star Wars, and Kylo is a far, far worse person on every level then the Beast was.

*honestly what are you suggesting, anyway, that she should have accepted him no matter what and just been okay with him doing and continuing to do evil deeds with an "eh, that's just that way he is!"?

And just where is any of this ever stated?

We really don't have any information on how Luke's academy worked* and in the only work that we currently have which shows Han and Leia as parents their shown doing a pretty good job.

*I doubt Leia would have sent him away if it meant she could never see him agian though (nor would I doubt many parents would be willing to do so either after the Empire had made it policy to forcibly abduct Force-sensative children), and both Ben and Luke are shown to have strong attachments to Han and Leia that indicate pretty strongly that his order was'nt following the same exact teachings as the old one - and Aftermath makes it clear that, while Leia has'nt talked to either Luke or her son in a while, she is still in contact with Ben and a part of his life.

He could have just ingored Snoke and told peaple that he was trying to speak to him. That he kept of their interactions is entirely on Kylo.

Um...

The mission to SK Base was both to destroy the shield and to save Rey - Han always intended to get her, it's just he and Finn had differing priorities on which to do first.

Dufuq?

Whe did Rey torment and stalk Kylo on SK Base?

Well, Rey was'nt a Jedi yet on SK Base, so that's not relevent, and Luke seemed pretty happy after killing far, far more peaple in ANH.

They had a "falling out" becuase Kylo was just standing by and letting Rey's allies, his mother and (for all Rey knew) Finn get blown to peices despite having the power to stop it and was demanding she do the same, and she reacted the way she did becuase she had to stop him from doing that.

No.

We don't really have any information on Luke's Academy (but given that both Luke and Ben/Kylo still had strong attachments to Han and Leia it seems such things were allowed) and all the information about what kind of parents Han and Leia were paints a picture that they were not in any way bad.

Rey was unforgiving in TROS becuase of her experiences with Kylo in TLJ - that's one of the few peices of consistency that the former movie kept with what the latter set up.

And she wore white so they could sync her up the unused fotage of Leia from TFA (that's why its the same exact costume). It did'nt symbolize anything, it was just a nessesity of production

Kylo might be broken and he might have suffered emotional abuse from Snoke/Palpatine, but he also was a monster who commited patricide and, if you go by the dictonary, abused a woman - both views can be correct, and his personal issues and the fact that his master mistreated him, like Vader before him, do not excuse his villianous actions.

As for Kylo being mentally ill, that's never said anywhere, so I don't know where you got the idea that he was.

Just becuase someone likes a fictional character differently then you and interpreted them differently then you did does'nt mean they hate them - they can love them just as much as you, just in a different way.

Han's my favorite character in the OT, and I think his dipiction in the ST was not only great but also respectful and perfectly in line with how the older movies established him. What makes how I view it, or how Abrams/Kasdan did, any less accurate or respectful then how you viewed it?

I would have perfered he stayed helmetless in TROS (by which I mean I would have rather the helmet was'nt rebuilt), but then agian I'm not suprised they did that since they were so intent on reversing his devolopment from TLJ.

Yeah, I was about to say that.

And in his very first scene, no less!

I thought the "Jon Snow Effect" was being permanently sullen, having great hair and having a dilogue that consists primarly of "mu queen" and "I don't wan it!"

Either that or it's what he did in the cave

 

and that badass coat/tunic spin when fighting.

 

Yes, his dress is very pretty isn't it?

(I could'nt resist...)

Haan Soolo

 

Because I’m right?

Seriously, how you can look at a Han that’s lost everything, is turned into a comedy act and then murdered for nothing, basically unmourned, and consider that great and respectful is absolutely unfathomable to me. Especially if you’re a Han fan. Sorry, I will never get it. Same with fans loving what’s done to Luke in TLJ and Leia throughout. I just don’t get it, and I never will. It’s not noble or tragic, to me.

 

The simple answer is becuase we're different peaple and I view the character (to say nothing of the films) differently then you do.

If you want a more elaborate explanation, it's becuase I don't think he died for nothing - he died helping destroy a terrible weapon and trying to bring the son he loved back and, in the end, it was the memory of him that played a big role in that son eventually turning back (though the fact that the situation was so sloppy done mars that a bit for me). I definantly don't think he was unmourned, and I don't see a problem with him being used for comedic effect in some scenes becuase I find that consistent with how he was used in the OT; he's not comic relief, but he's always been used for levity and snark.

If you want an even more elaborate explanation, it's becuase I don't think he went through as much devolopment as some peaple do - honestly speaking I don't think Han changed all that much between ANH and ROTJ and I find the explanation that he would go hide his distress of loosing his son by going back to smuggling perfectly acceptable. I also don't have any issue with Solo becuase it provides essentially the same backstory for him as the Legends Han Solo trilogy (the second one), books that I love and which have been part of my experience with the character almost since the beggining of my time as a Star Wars fan (that trilogy were one of the first EU works I read).

I could give similier explanations for Luke and Leia and why I like their dipictions in the ST - in fact, I've made it quite clear before that becuase of TLJ I like Luke even more then I did before.

 

Han was mourned by Leia, Luke (there's actually a scene that was cut), and Rey - especially by Rey. She did here best to avenge him on Starkiller.

The only person not mourned in the ST was Ben.

Here's Luke's deleted scene

 

Would this have been just before crait?

 

I think it might have been just after Rey and Chewie arrived at Luke's hut, after he asked her where Han was.

By the way, Williams' music..... it'll never fail to move me.

 

I think the really simple answer turns on whether you like Kylo and wanted his redemption or not. If you like Kylo, you’re happy with what happened to Luke, Leia and especially Han because it serves Kylo. If you don’t, like me, you hate what is done to them in serving Kylo.

If you think Han doesn’t grow between ANH and ROTJ, we’re never going to agree. I’ve not seen Solo and I never will. But the story that it tells that I’ve read, to me, is an insult to the character. I don’t care what George or Harrison or anyone has said in the press, so you don’t have to trot it out for me. They decided to continue to trash Han for some reason I will never understand. The entire Disney output seems to exist to punish the OT characters for starting the whole universe and, more importantly, being more popular and beloved than their new cardboard cutouts.

First of all “scene that was cut” so...

Second, does Han get a funeral other that a stupid scene in a book that Leia doesn’t even want and that endangers the Resistance? No. Then again, at least Leia grieves for a second or two. Luke dies and she’s happy he died with peace and purpose. Leia dies for precious Ben, who murdered her husband and brother and destroyed her life. Why JJ decided to “honor” Carrie and Leia with this is a mystery to me.

So why were you expecting anything for the villain after what the heroes got?

 

I much prefer the look of Kylo Ren is TFA. As a costume, it looks more reminiscent of the Sith as established by the prequels. The look for TROS seems far more generic. Also, I remember (and I think it was from an official source) that there were reasons for Kylo Ren looking like he did in TFA, and that perhaps his attire was made up of actual armour parts of ancient Sith. I really liked the idea that Kylo/Snoke were on a quest to hunt down Sith artefacts, in order to bring back some ancient power/darksider (NOT Palpatine), and that Luke was involved in sabotaging that quest. Hey ho...

 

TROS probably has the most generic look for every character. Poe was Nathan Drake knock-off. They didn't even try to give him a Star Wars look. Finn got Han knock-off look with the vest (previously a knock-off with the jacket). Zorii was Power Ranger knock-off. Rey was Rey TFA knock-off. Kylo was TLJ Kulo + different cape and slightly different mask. Resistance looked like regular folks. Nothing to cosplay here.

 

Rey was because of scenes with Leia. I liked her TLJ look and hopes she keeps that one, dark and grey.

 

Honestly, the whole ST is cosplay - the new characters displaying the old (or even other LFL characters - Poe just needs a bullwhip and a hat) and the old playing knockoffs of themselves. Leia’s the only one in a new outfit or two and her look through most of TFA is so unflattering it looks like punishment. Same for Rose all the way through. KMT is very pretty and they went out of their way to make her look bad. But they really go out of their way to make everyone look terrible. I am always amazed at the praise the cinematography gets in the ST. Look at how gorgeous everyone looks in Empire, for example, and compare it to the cast in TLJ, which is constantly praised for its cinematography. Everyone looks as drab as a mud fence, that somehow got smeared all over the lens.

When the most stylish man in the Saga is wearing a knockoff of his old shirt in another movie, I don’t even know why they bothered hiring a costume designer.

 

Just shows that scenes with Leia were a mistake. You can't create life out of old footage (that was deemed bad for release in TFA).

I love rey's TLJ look because it represented maturity. She was a child(like) in TFA and then grew into a woman in TLJ. She reverted back to a child in TROS and not just because of TFA knock-off look (sliding down the dune on tatooine like she did on Jakku, walking into the sunset with a toy). @Fredrik Vallestrand

@PendragonM Veyr true about costume design. Disappointing though it fits in with trying to emulate OT rather than risk and design something different, which is what PT did. No matter what one thinks of that trilogy, it had amazing costumes especially for Naboo characters. Padme's costumes are just stunning.

 

TLJ had the high rise pants of doom. And Leia in a dark grey frock - which in the flying through space scene gave her a terrible unfortunate look from the angle they chose.

Now the latter is a directorial thing but the former I attribute to costuming. If someone has wide shoulders and a bulkier frame, high rise pants + shirtlessness gives off a Lego look. I mean, why? Did someone lose a bet?

 

maybe they hired a Lego costume designer?

 

Because Ben died to save precious Rey? Because Darth Vader got a funeral pyre?

Regarding Leia 'saving" Ben....I honestly think that was to save Rey, not Ben. Because her actions very nearly got him killed.
By the way...thank you for confirming Kelly Tran is very pretty. It's a refreshing change from the hideous comments some people are saying about this beautiful and talented lady who by all accounts is also a nice person.

 

It's the 'cobbled together' look that I like for the TFA costume. I like the ragged shawl, the battered helmet and the home-made lightsaber. I wish they had pursued this angle more with Kylo Ren. The concept of Vader's grandson trying to emulate him is intriguing from an in-universe and meta perspective. Like everything else though, it wasn't followed through with any conviction. It was just paid lip-service.

Re: Leia's costuming. It was boring (but functional) in TFA. It was slightly better in The Last Jedi. The Crait scene at the door where she has the collar thing over her face looked good.

 

I think the saddest thing about the ST is the wasted potential.
Rey and Kylo creating a new type of Jedi order, Finn liberating the stormtroopers, the real villain being war and conflict itself.....
It all could have happened in TROS.
But.....never mind.