ST Kylo Ren and Rey in VIII and IX (See new guidelines on page 228)

The "You've SEEN it!" line signals that he's shocked by something about her. It's a different intonation to "The old man gave it to you" at the start. (And may I say, I was surprised he didn't hang around to find out what Poe had done with the map - it really shouldn't have been too hard to find in the middle of a desert.)

 

Remember what Hux tells Kylo at the beginning of the movie to not let his personal feelings interfere with his capacity to conduct the mission. I've always found that to be a pretty obvious hint at something.

 

I know, right? That struck me too. Maybe he hates sand as much as his grandfather does. He really did have a bad day at the office. As nonesuch pointed out, he makes a series of impulsive and unwise choices throughout the film. His actions on Jakku were item one, but the worst blunder had to be chasing Finn and Rey out into a forest, at night, alone, with a blaster wound in his side. He's either going to be redeemed or sent by Snoke to villain vocational school.

 

Yeah, Kylo doesn't seem cut out to be a villain, but he might find peace in the balance of light and darkness.

 

he seems to be a perfect example of a psychopatic 'Nolan's joker' type of villain. So yep a good villain.

 

Since Snoke describes Kylo as the perfect balance of light and dark, it will be interesting if that ultimately is what leads to Snoke's demise.

 

yeah, despite JJA's commentary, they took poe back to the ship too. so is "something else going on here"? haha

 

i feel like Reys hatred for Kylo is going to be something dark she struggles with personally.

 

I wonder why she'd struggle with it, though. What would happen that gives her such profound pity for him?

 

Sorry, gotta gush about Takodana forest location. I so love it that they are bringing high Tolkien-ian fantasy into SW through these characters. So first thing I noticed about their meeting is that the forest was sp tranquil and isolated form the battle raging outside, as if the characters were alone in their own world, set apart from the rest. And that's exactly how it is contextually cause they are the high-fantasy/fairytale/mythological part of the movie. The rest is sci fi war/adventure, but Rey and Kylo are pure fantasy. They picked the location precisely for because it's "magical":

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-35109942

As a huge LOTR fan, I'm happy to report that this forest inspired Tolkien's enchanted woods in LOTR
http://news.sky.com/story/ancient-forest-is-mecca-for-star-wars-fans-10335178



What strikes me the most here is that the forest isn't ominous at all. It's verdant, fertile, sunny, calm, very "garden of Eden" (compared to her barren, scorched planet and his barren, frozen planet - another nice symmetry) which, again, goes back to Grecian myths where all famous abductions of Goddesses and princesses by Gods and half-Gods happen in the forest. They really did a good homework cause it's really easy to trace influences.

Cinematography in all their scenes is absolutely to die for as are scene compositions. So I'm super stoked to see what they do with them in Ireland.

 

George agrees.

 

i think what i disagree with is that a lot of these arguments seem to be saying that one is either 100% one thing or 100% its opposite, and that everything inside of a person will not only show up completely in their actions/behavior but that a person can also only feel one way or only be of one mind about something. it's as though one can't have a primary motive that many of their feelings, thoughts and views are behind, while also having feelings that run contrary to the main motive as it's being carried out.

as a person who often has mixed feelings which conflict with one another such that i constantly have to resolve little tangles that i feel multiple ways about, or feel differently about than i think logically about, etc. to me it is perfectly natural that a person or character would feel multiple ways about the same thing (not always be of one mind on something). so i think the argument that kylo can't feel any compassion at all because actions such as abducting rey, invading her mind, etc. do not arise out of compassion, is flawed. this argument assumes that one cannot feel different things at once, and it assumes that everything one feels must always show up blatantly in their actions and behavior; and even kind of implies that change must always be abrupt, jarring and highly noticeable.

i could definitely see rey struggling with hatred for kylo. i mean come the end of TFA, hatred is kind of where we left off. not only hatred, but temptation towards the dark side. it might be that kylo becomes less hateful in response to rey's hatred towards him. TLJ could be one long struggle with the dark side for rey.

 

I don't think she will have pity i mean she will hate him so much it'll start to corrupt her.

 

I see tlj being a struggle with the dark side for rey but i don't want kylo to start to get redeemed if rey struggles i rather see her have her own journey and kylo has his.

 

Next to the ending, it's my favorite sequence in the film. And oh so reminiscent of:

 

Rey's not gonna be consumed by hate, there's no story in that and it's totally against SW values:

Kathleen Kennedy

"Inside Star Wars are values that mean something to people. It's aspirational. It's full of hope. These are oddly values that we don't see in a lot of tentpole movies anymore. I don't know why there tends to be a more dystopian, apocalyptic view of the world. The great thing is, that's not what Star Wars is, and that's why it appeals to people."

Also, that's not where Rey's arc is going since it would have contradicted SW values

Jason Ward, MSW:

"From what I have heard a few times, Rey is reluctant, if not angry at Luke Skywalker because she has to kill Kylo Ren and she doesn’t want to do it."

http://makingstarwars.net/2016/05/star-wars-episode-viii-the-knights-of-ren/

Podcast transcript by BastilaBey starts at 95 min

"They say it seems like Rey and Luke are on Ahch-to for almost the entire movie, and they estimate that Kylo arrives in the middle but it's hard to tell just from the shooting
schedule. Kylo has the knights go after Luke and Rey 'is his' because she beat him last time. All of which is to say this sounds pretty personal.

They also point out that Luke asking Rey to kill Kylo is towards the beginning of the film, and that's an entirely different moment from Kylo arriving.
Another interesting thing! Jason says when talking about the possibility of luke's presence overshadowing Rey's, since she is the heroine, this would be solved by Rey's 'ideology' winning. Which means it could be the right choice for her not to kill Kylo, showing that Luke was mistaken and that she's not just doing something because Luke Skywalker told her to.

'Rey and Kylo Ren's fight is the actual drama, that's the focal point' - Jason says this after the interviewer gushes about Luke being a bad*** and killing KoR"

http://roguewon.podbean.com/e/episode-6-now-this-is-rogue-winning/

I'm with Jason cause his reports were big win at the Celebration and not to tout my horn but to tout my horn I did so well with my predictions too.

Gigoran Monk Yes! We are getting our SW LOTR! is there a TFA cinematography thread for that or I can use TLJ one?

 

Pretty sure there's a TFA one. Let me check.

ETA: Here it is: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/the-cinematography-of-tfa-and-beyond.50038942/

 

Thank you!

 

I think there's a wide range of emotions between forgiveness and hatred, and Rey can feel any emotion on a spectrum towards him. Personally, there are some people I know who I have compassion/empathy for but who I would never forgive for what they did to me and my friends (though admittedly it's nothing as bad as what Rey suffered). What's surprising to me is that Rey doesn't seem to want to kill Kylo earlier on, which is when I'd assume she'd still feel hatred for him, but I guess it might depend on what exactly Luke asks her to do - there could be a piece missing we don't know about yet.

Anyway I agree that it'd be more interesting if Rey's feelings for Kylo weren't 100% either hatred or forgiveness. It'd be more realistic and show Rey as being a compassionate, complex character.

 

OMG I just read that MSW post -- AMAZING!! <3

Most curious about why Luke tells Rey she has to kill Kylo. It seems so fundamentally contrary to the very thing that made him heroic in ROTJ. I just want his position to make sense in-context.

 

Yes, complexity! Those characters are the best!

Star Wars traditions are Hope and Redemption. Hate as a state of mind that never goes away is reserved for designated evil incarnates such as Palpatine and Snoke.

 

I could buy a redemption arc in which she feels compassion for him and comes to forgive and trust him eventually, but come on. If they're going that route they need to have him throw her a bone early on and actually TRY to make amends. Super conflicted until the final act? Sure. But he should show up on Ahch-To with the intention of changing her opinion of him.