ST Kylo Ren and Rey in VIII and IX (See new guidelines on page 228)

imo ultimately rey will have to guide herself. in the OT by ROTJ luke is guiding himself. obi-wan and yoda weighed in, in the beginning, and luke considered what they had to say. then he decided to save his father. rey begins TLJ feeling lost i'm sure. and through all the things that happen in TLJ her own inner voice is going to start getting louder and answering her own questions.

i really don't think that rey's course in TLJ will be about picking her guide (or at least i hope not lol).

her relationships with luke and kylo will likely both change throughout the course of the film. she'll reunite with finn who will have gone through some **** himself and they will reconnect with where each of them are now.

 

There's a bigger chance of rey being Lando's daugther then her and Kylo teaming up at the end of this movie.

 

I agree. Rey teaming with kylo romantically or otherwise would blow up the character imo. Imagine being finn and learning that rey is now buds with kylo ren. "han, chewy, and I stormed starkiller base in order to rescue rey. Kylo killed han, he nearly cut me in half, and now rey is hanging out with him? WTF?!?!?!"






As I said on other boards, that'd be the jump the shark moment for star wars.

 

i can see rey and kylo teaming up. but this depends on so many things that i just don't know. what does rey discover about "her place in the force" and about kylo? does kylo come to ahch-to and rey and him fight and how does that end? what does rey see in visions, if anything? what does luke say about kylo? are kylo and snoke at odds or not? what are snoke's plans for rey? how does kylo's internal conflict play out over the course of the film? what resolutions does rey come to?

and how does this work with kylo leading flametroopers into crait rebel base in what seems to be the last act of the film?

i can easily see kylo extending his hand to rey by the end of the film.

 

I still say that would make rey the crappiest person in the galaxy. I'd be completely put off from the character and would have no interest in any thing where she's supposed to be seen as heroic. Any human being that cares anything about the people around them, especially ones that risked so much to come to their aid, would never, under any circumstances, see kylo ren as a person they should trust or join up with. After he abducted and tortured her, kylo killed han and almost killed finn. These events wouldn't have happened if han and friends didn't storm SKB in order to rescue rey. Her joining with kylo would be an ultimate betrayal.

 

was luke the crappiest person in the galaxy because he decided to save vader, a man who killed obi-wan kenobi, tortured leia, tortured han, and cut off luke's hand?

 

Rey's place is not with Kylo, that much is certain.

Kylo offering his hand is no different than Vader attempting to get Luke to join the dark side. It is possible that he has her backed against a cliff again and therefore thinks she'll accept this time. Not unlike Luke in ESB, I believe Rey would sooner choose to fall into the ocean than take his murderous hand.

 

i don't understand why this is back to rey's place being with one of the guys in the ST. rey is looking for her place *in the force*. this isn't a let's choose the right guy thing.

i think that there is a part of kylo that genuinely wants to help rey. i don't think that kylo should be trusted because he's evil and a villain (in TFA the good in him ends up being twisted towards evil ends despite his sincerity). but i'm not going to round kylo up to 100% evil when i can see that there is good/light in him and this is even part of his character set up ("i feel it again, the pull to the light").

unfortunately i see this as all much more complicated than morally black and white thinking. i can't think in a morally black and white way about *anything*.

and if rey did team up with kylo we don't even know the circumstances. she might not trust him but see an advantage for instance. there is such an array of possibilities here i don't see a need to think, oh if they team up they are now BFFs.

i am not expecting a completely unbelievable situation. rey hates kylo by the end of TFA imo. whatever happens between them, rey's emotional journey is going to make sense imo.

 

Ouch. Even crappier than crappy Kylo? Way harsh, Tai.

 

Yeah what would happen to Star Wars if the main hero, after seeing friends and family tortured, injured and killed by the bad guy, would show compassion toward them? Imagine Star Wars after that occurs. What kind of plot could they even concoct to make that believable?

"I'll not leave you here I've got to save you" - Luke "ultimate betrayer, crappiest person" Skywalker.

 

ok fine, she's be on par with the crappiest person in the galaxy.

 

even if all she does is good stuff and save people with this alliance, temporary or not? i mean how can you put rey and kylo in even close to the same category here?

 

Well, that figures. Two halves of a crappy whole.

 

I mean we learn later that Luke wasn't exactly treated like a genius to his friends after that. Especially not to Leia who continued to hate Vader and was later kicked out of the NR when it was revealed that she was related to him. Does that make Leia a crappy person for not understanding why he'd do that? oncafar

 

i'm so confused. leia isn't a crappy person because she hates darth vader. luke isn't a crappy person because he saved anakin. darth vader was a crappy person. rey isn't a crappy person because she hates kylo ren (which imo she does at the end of TFA). kylo ren is a crappy person. if rey comes to forgive kylo ren for some of what he did, rey isn't a crappy person either. if finn hates kylo ren he isn't a crappy person.

luke and leia were able to each feel completely differently about vader/anakin and still be very close to one another because they respect one another's feelings and put their understanding/love of each other > their differing feelings. they don't have some rule that they can't be friends unless they feel the same way about everything.

 

Right but at the end of the day Vader was dead so there was room for healing and Leia didn't have to dwell on it; whereas Kylo would still be alive prancing around free and it would be hella awkward and Finn would basically have nothing to do because there would be two all powerful Force demigods running around wrecking everyone in sight with their angst. It wouldn't be cohesive plotwise. That's all I was trying to say.

 

leia and luke didn't spend their every waking moment together after the OT ended. it wasn't like they would be trapped in the international space station together with the former darth vader or something. you've also exaggerated things to rey and kylo becoming these two destroyers of everything? really? if ben solo was redeemed that means he's not going to be wrecking everything around him with his angst. and i can't see rey doing that either. using hyperbole like this makes this about something that is out of the question anyway.

i don't agree that rey cannot be friends with a redeemed ben solo because then she can't be friends with finn. it's a false dichotomy. the friendship between rey and finn is about rey and finn, and about how they feel about one another, and that they respect one another's feelings. if redeemed ben still being alive can break that, their friendship wasn't very strong imo.

oh and if anakin was still alive at the end of the OT i doubt luke would be spending all his time with him either. i don't spend all my time with my mom as an adult lol.

leia and han were married and they didn't spend all their time together.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Imo it wouldn't make sense for Kylo to even be given freedom period after the events of the trilogy. But people are free to interpret a story how they like. And if Anakin had survived the OT, he'd probably be in a prison cell for the rest of his life.

And what I meant before was that Rey and Kylo are both incredibly strong with the Force and are being promoted as such. If they were suddenly to become partners during the remainder of the trilogy, they'd pretty much outshine everyone else by a longshot and the narratives would be really unbalanced.

 

i think if anakin had survived the OT luke might have actually hidden him somewhere possibly because he would know the galaxy would never forgive vader who would need to be presumed dead (on the death star when it exploded perhaps). however, i could also see anakin and luke coming to agree he needed to face up to his crimes. given how the new republic justice system seemed to work in 'bloodline' this would have meant execution, not imprisonment. castefro was to be executed for a murder of one person that he didn't commit (though ofc it was ruled he did commit it). the utter hate in the senate towards vader was clear. he hurt too many people and they would have all called for his head.

if ben solo is redeemed it's also a very complicated situation. leia wanted her son back in TFA. if she got him back, what was she planning to do with him? we don't know. han told him it wasn't too late to leave with him (and then what?).

however, i think the story could also end with kylo not being redeemed and alive. he could end as an unbalanced antihero, he could remain a villain and retreat into the UR, he could go the wandering ronin route.

ways of seeing rey and kylo actually somehow "ending up together" are perhaps among the most unlikely scenarios. in the mortis arc (TCW) the son and daughter (one evil, one good, both super powerful) actually live isolated from the rest of the galaxy because they are too powerful. the father stays and keeps them in balance (he's also too powerful). so just how powerful are rey and kylo?

i suppose the one scenario that i personally wouldn't mind though i'm sure a ton of people would hate would be that redeemed ben solo helps train future jedi. he would know all about falling to the dark side and the dangers of it, which is kind of valuable. he could remain with luke.

but given how both rey and kylo seem to be force super powers (so far), i am not sure ben is actually coming back. if he is the dark half of a balance, he might be right about his destiny. i really don't know.

i think the force story often does outshine the other story... but it depends on the viewer. i am always way more interested in the force story than anything else in star wars. i can't help it. that said, the villain generally always has less screen time than the heroes.

 

well, show me where darth vader murdered leia and nearly cut han solo in half. Show me where darth vader cross the line and murdered a family member.
There really is no comparison between the two relationships. Key's pairing with kylo would be a personal betrayal to friends who've suffered a great deal in the name of saving her from him. She even got to watch kylo murder on of her friends. Darth vader froze han solo, an act that didn't result in death and luke wasn't even there to witness. Plus there's that whole thing where darth vader is actually luke's father.

think about it like this. How would you feel if you stormed into a ridiculously dangerous situation in order to save a friend from a monster who's abducted her, was nearly cut in half, and is now going through a painful recovery, only to learn that said friend is now buddies with the monster. I'd think any person would feel like their "friend" doesn't care much for them. Any way you look at it, its a betrayal to people she calls friends, and that seems waaaaay out of character for rey. The only way even a respectful non violent relationship between the two would be remotely acceptable is if its revealed that they are blood related.

 

i think we are easier on vader because he didn't succeed in murdering his pregnant wife or brother/father figure obi-wan. these are the sorts of ugly things people do once they turn to the dark side. i am always kind of surprised at how the things vader does are "okay" now in comparison to kylo. what vader and kylo do are not okay. they're just not. i also find it strange how it's "okay" to murder a lot of people if it's under an evil regime with laws saying you can and as long as you don't murder a family member. where does this come from? it's like whatever the OT villain does is okay because of <reasons>. but since those <reasons> don't apply to ST villain, what he does is not okay. like vader and kylo are both horrible people. horrible. and what they do is not okay. like at all.

finn's feelings don't get to determine rey's feelings (unless she wants them to). i'm sorry, but that is not fair. people feel the way they feel about things and in close friendships people allow each other space to have their own feelings. i have a friend who has a friend that i deeply dislike and used to resent for something he did to me. i don't hang out with the two of them together because i can't stand that guy. but i understand my friend loves him. and that's fine. who am i to dictate what friends my other friends can have or how they are allowed to feel about people?

 

Nostalgia time! Remember that time when this little nugget was pooh-poohed as meaningless?



Yeah. I remember that fondly...

I also remember how my earliest theory was that Rey and Kylo are somehow on the same "Force frequency", kind of like twin flames in the Force, two halves of a whole. I remember how that sort of thing was treated as ridiculous Reylo fanfiction. Oh yes, I remember a time when anything hinting even remotely in this direction was seen as a ridiculous Reylo fanfiction.

"An energy they recognise in each other", goshdarnit what d'ya know. Must have been the raw, untamed powah after all.

Not to brag or anything, but this post was totally made for bragging purposes.

 

Meaningless? Really?

Or do you just mean people said it didnt indicate romance was in the cards?

Of course it’s meaningful. TFA sorta clubbed us over the head with “They’re mirrors! Yet so alike! What’s their connection??” The question is, really, *why,* and what will it mean?

You know who also had a strong, mysterious connection? (As per the new canon adding context to the films) Luke and Leia.

I wasnt around here in the early days post-TFA, but from what I’ve heard, Reylos seemed to notice quite a lot of emphasis on the parallelsamd mirroring between Rey and Kylo that others missed. I absolutely agree that they’re connected somehow, and that said connection will prove to be significant. I just disagree that it’s something thet will result in romance.

 

but the thing is that their connection seems to be about the force and their places in the force - one super light power, one super dark power. that is the energy they are sensing in one another -- that they are two halves of the same power. this isn't like luke and leia who are not two halves of a whole or opposites/complements in this way.

i was watching mortis again and i think the father called the type of being he, the daughter and son were "force wielders"? that to me sounds more like what rey and kylo might be?

it's also why luke is alarmed, because something really weird is going on here.

in mortis the father said that his children could tear the fabric of reality apart and that's why he had to contain them. (snoke might be interested in tearing the fabric of reality apart and reshaping it as he wants it. snoke might be like the father, only aligned with evil.)

though another thing confused me in my recent viewing which is the son and his relationship to the dark side. he seems from my pov to basically be aligned with the dark side anyway, but the story has him falling to the dark side and after he accidentally killed his sister (the only one he truly loved) he embraces it fully. the daughter said that her nature was selfless and his was always selfish. but there seems to be a distinction between having a selfish nature / being evil / the dark side.

i think that maybe ben solo always had a somewhat selfish nature and rey's nature we can see is pretty selfless.

in any case i think that the mortis arc and how the daughter and son are actual siblings is a good argument for rey and kylo being related. except that what they represent in the force is more important than them being siblings... you could run the story either way. the dark side and the light side have both found their "hosts" kind of lol. and i still think snoke was looking for this. he found one of the two early - ben solo. and he's been waiting for the other one to crop up somewhere. if he did find rey when she was small, he lost her again imo. because he didn't know the other power was on jakku - if he had he would have done something about it then.

in any case, rey's abandonment (if that's what it is) may be because her parents knew something... it's maybe specifically because of what rey represents in the force and not letting snoke find her. luke doesn't seem in the trailer to know about this...

honestly we could try to tip it back to leia as rey's parent, though she never would have told luke what she knew. she sent her own baby away. that would mean though that she does know who rey is by the end of TFA. i had pitched the outrageous idea before that leia could have concealed her pregnancy and never even told han. they seemed to have spent a lot of time apart.