Saga Kylo Ren (RoS) vs. Darth Vader (RotJ) in a duel

He hunted down Jedi while Kenobi was a Jedi. He was unable to find him. Kenobi was both powerful and previously defeated Vader so unless you can dismiss the logic you are grasping at straws. Not what you might dream up but logica and what you can prove. So it took two decades whereas Kylo killed Snoke inside a week after he mocked him. Vader did not have the cunning to put his plan into play.

You try to dismiss everything Kylo did better than Vader. Kylo was not falling for Palpatine’s ****. Vader did. Kylo was his own man and wanted him dead from learning he somehow still lived. Vader was just thevdope who was grooming his own son to take his own place. It takes a special kind of broken individual to allow something so terrible to be done to him.


Ren was injured and unbalanced due to killing his own father. Snoke says as much plus we see the blast wound him. Ren completely overwhelms her after her training in RoS. Ren also beat her twice in TFA. Subdues and kidnaps her. Then he force push kos her before Finn jumped in. Kylo was conflicted by his connection with Rey and his family. He still accomplished it but it ripped him up. Vader was too weak to ever get this close in terms of dark side with regards to his family. FO did fear him. His pretended he liked his helmet and snuck around, troops fled in fear of Kylo. You are saying things that are not true now. I get it you like Vader but he was slower, dumber, less accomplished, and worse feats of the two in films.

 

Untrue since Maul is my second favorite Star Wars character but Rey would beat him, I thibk Rey is lame but I acknowledge her power. Both she and Ren were scary powerful to freak Luke Skywalker out. Skywalkers and Palpatines are the top of the food chain.

 

Huge Vader fan so I'm gonna say Vader. RO Vader would destroy Kylo. But I agree by ROTJ Kylo could probably take him as Vader was in decline. I saw a youtube video describing how Palpatine had made Vader's suit so he would be vulnerable and under his thumb. Like the panel on the outside. It was very vulnerable to Force lightning. The Emperor knew Vader could overtake him if precautions were not taken.

 

Peak Anakin would win easily.

 

RO Vader was not impressive and he failed to even get the plans. They were not even warriors and despite his force abilities he was unable to do so. Kylo would Maul him tbh. Look at how quick he was against Luke on Crait.

 

Rots Vader lost to Kenobi. Kylo and Rey were a lot more powerful than Kenobi ever was. Vader never reached his potential thus he stayed a lackey for decades.

 

I think Vader would still win overall, but TROS Kylo would have much more of a chance than his TFA/TLJ self would.

 

Why would Vader win? What did he do that leads you to this conclusion? Film wise.

 

Cause Kylo is admittedly a Vader wannabe.

 

No offence but every post I've seen you make here has been you telling people they are wrong for saying Vader would win so is there really any point in me responding?

For the record though I like both Vader and Kylo, and I'm basing my opinion off the fact that a big part of Kylo's character arc was that he wasn't as strong as Vader was but wanted to be, and ended up coming back to the light just like he did.

If you still think Kylo would win though you are perfectly entitled to that opinion, after all it's purely hypothetical anyway.

 

He evolved past the past in TLJ. It is like saying you believe Brady cannot surpass Montana because he idolized him. Kylos obsession is what made him great. He evolved far faster than any Star Wars baddie. When Luke and Snoke betrayed him bad things followed.

 

That was in the first film but in the last film Palpatine says he could do something Vader did not. Kylo was darker, rose to the top, and never suffered the debilitating injures Vader did.

 

Indeed.

 

Somebody needs to do one of those computer animation / simulation things that they do when they pit boxers like Ali against Tyson to see who would win.

 

Kylo Ren has to be matched up with Darth Vader from "ROTJ" to be considered the victor?

 

It’s the only circumstance he’d be considered. His idol would absolutely crush him otherwise.

 

Agree with this. Despite being a vader fanboy and a fan of luke too I do think kylo and rey were above those force wise if not likeable wise

 

^But this is Kylo vs Vader, not Kylo+Rey vs Vader.

Personally, I think losing to an untrained scavenger is worse than any "loss" Vader has in the OT, all of which are because he's deliberately holding back. Even in RotS, he lost to his own mentor, a Jedi Master.

I don't think any "feat" Kylo achieved makes him better than Vader. If anything, most of his "accomplishments" (like the character himself) feel like "diet" versions of Vader's. Wiping out Luke's students as opposed to an entire Jedi Order, sneakily killing Snoke, etc.

But really, I think this is less about who is more powerful or who achieved more, and more about who'd be more likely to kill the other despite emotional conflict. Based on Kylo's history, I think he'd be more likely to "do it". He killed his father, and (from what I hear, I haven't seen TROS), he killed Rey. So I think that's the edge I'd give Kylo: that he's more cold-hearted and backstabbing. In short, he's a bigger jerk.

 

The guy with the red lightsaber in the background vs. the guy who stands at the number 1 on the list.



--- Star Wars Absolutely Everything You Need to Know (2015)

Ren is afraid of not being as strong as Vader.

 

Vader. He's got a lot more experience. It was circumstantial for Vader to lose to Luke in ROTJ. I don't think Vader would be holding back as much against Kylo. He also probably wouldn't be caught by surprise during any of the fight that would cause him to lose.

 

Experience is the key.

 

Each trilogy is a product of their times. If the original trilogy were made now, they would look more similar to the sequel trilogy interms of action and force abilities and the like(hence Rouge One ending Vader scene). So I find it very unfair to compare trilogy characters, especially force abilities because of this fact. Example George(yeah first name basis) says Ben Kenobi, Vader they are old and can't fight like they used too. Dooku, Yoda, and Palpatine kinda reversed that line of thinking. That line was stated because back then that's what they had, that was cool in ANH,ESB, ROTJ.. these were cool fights until the prequels to were technology made them better and probably over the top. The sequels wanted to tone that down a bit, and go more for the hack and slash type of fighting which I liked. Vader is known as the Jedi hunter and Palpatines most ruthless apprentice, however you wouldn't know that by watching the originals.

 

Yeah, that's another good thing about Rogue One.

 

This, with the notion that Luke is still one of the most powerful Jedi to have ever lived, both because the Force runs strong in his family (midichlorians FTW), and because he is trained and mentored both by Kenobi and Yoda, while at the same time being on his own a very talented and charismatic person, bringing more to the Jedi than his predecessors with his open mind.

We are talking about Vader here. How is Vader in ROTJ any less powerful than Vader in any of the OT btw? Just because 4 years have passed since Rogue One? I mean, that's just not an argument when you realize how Palpatine fought in ROTS.