levels of the emperor's force users...

Does "Stele Chronicles" equate the Secret Order with the Prophets?

It is interesting that none of the ranks in TIE FIghter match the Prophet ranks (lesser prophet, high prophet, supreme prophet). In fact, I don't remember him ever being called a Prophet. I think the game designers never intended the Secret Order to be connected to the Prophets, I think that was a later EU thing.

 

What page is the Dark Sider mentioned on?

 

One more to add to the Secret Order: the "Cloaked Figure"

While some DS groups are artificial (ie, Emperor's Hands were never a GROUP), others DO exist as distinct Imperial organizations (the Secret Order, the Inquisitorius)

It makes sense to me that the Inquisitors would outrank other Darksiders. THey had a much more public role than the Hands or Mages, who were both secret. Most Emperor's Hands were unknowns to the Empire at large, gaining authority by using their special codes, not by saying

"I am the Emperor's Hand."

"No you aren't. You're nowhere near wrinkled enough."

Also, the Inquuisitors, like Vader, were Jedi Hunters, not parts of the Hands' job (chiefly, Mara and the Dark Woman).

 

Hey, if I have an opinion different from a Mod, do I get banned?
just joking
I suppose one doesn't have to interpret it that Inquisitors outrank other DSers from that quote, but I think that is a tenable interpretation. If you choose instead to just continue viewing Jerec as uber-special individual Dark Jedi Master, that is OK I guess. But, as an inquisitor, how could Jerec have outranked Torbin, the only and last GI?

 

"Does "Stele Chronicles" equate the Secret Order with the Prophets?"

The prophets never show up in the "Stele Chronicles"(which was a novella that came with early versions of tiefighter), only in the Tie fighter strategy guide.

"It is interesting that none of the ranks in TIE FIghter match the Prophet ranks (lesser prophet, high prophet, supreme prophet). In fact, I don't remember him ever being called a Prophet. I think the game designers never intended the Secret Order to be connected to the Prophets, I think that was a later EU thing."

Well the secret order isn't called prophets pe se in the strategy guide. But interesting enough the file name for the Prophet's voice files hints at his prophet status. It has the Initials, "PD", which may be short for Prophet of the Darkside. The other guy that briefs you on the other hand has the initials "IO", IIRC, which would point to meaning, "Imperial Officer", I think.

Also I'm thinking that the secret order is a special freemason type rite within the order of the prophets. So you have your basic prophets, and then there is the Secret Order. You would have your tatoo ranks within the secret order, first circle, second circle, innercircle, eyes etc, as well as your rank within the prophets, lesser, high, supreme, etc.

 

A secret order within something which is ALREADY a secret order?

Fascinating!

And I thought Alpha Blue was special.

 

IIRC, the free masons have a special rite within the order, that is broken down into special honor titles, like "Knight Templar", etc. It's the leaders that make up the order within the order.

"A secret order within something which is ALREADY a secret order?"

...actually the majority of the prophets of the darkside were never exactly called a "the secret order" as far as I know, and were often rumored about by other people in the empire, and known by a few leaders of the empire.

But those in the "secret order" are prophets of the darkside, but probably not all the prophets of the darkside, but just an elite few, probably only including the upper echalons(if it mirrors the freemasons).

 

Cilghal...
"Hands' job"

Sorry. Misread that one initially.

"But, as an inquisitor, how could Jerec have outranked Torbin, the only and last GI"

The key to understanding Emperor Palpatine's leadership structures and heirarchy is that you have to discard what you know and think you know about rational and efficient leadership. These were not the goal of Palpatine's structure. The goal of the structure was to create a bewildering enough system that all of his underlings who would ever possibly gain enough power to rival him were directly at odds with one another - constantly fighting for favor, resources, etc. - and were required to undercut, backstab and otherwise connive their way around with respect to gaining Imperial favor.

How could Jerec have outranked Torbin?

Easily, because for the most part, Jerec was assigned to the catch-all "Special Projects" category of Imperial authority. Torbin was where the buck stopped with the Inquisitors. But Jerec's status as an Inquisitor was not solely where his authority was derived from. It was also derived from the fact that he'd possibly be a Dark Lord of the Sith (all in power, skill, knowledge and ability) if a spot ever came open. And as such, that fact ranks far higher in authority from Palpatine than Torbin could've ever hoped to muster.

 

I'd also point out, that not every hand has the belief of themselves being the only hand, but that is "often" the case, according to DSSB. So we do know that there are at least some hands that know that they are not the only hands. They know that there are more out there.

Come to think of it, IIRC, AJ #15, even discussed someone that went to a special academy, to learn how to be a Hand, but failed in her training, and didn't become a Hand, like she had intended. So we know that there is a special academy where people know about hands, and can even strive to become one, apparently knowing about fellow students.

Interesting to note that was the article that introduced Sarcev Quest, who by the way knew that she failed Hand, and apparently gone to the same "Hands Academy" with her. He(IIRC, along with Palpatine) had another plan for her, to turn her into some kind of uber force user.

"Easily, because for the most part, Jerec was assigned to the catch-all "Special Projects" category of Imperial authority."

Which included the fact that he was in charge of the empire's Darkside and Sith archeological department, which gave him access to go to pretty much any world in the empire, in the persuit of finding ultra powerful objects for the empire.

 

I'd also point out, that not every hand has the belief of themselves being the only hand, but that is "often" the case, according to DSSB. So we do know that there are at least some hands that know that they are not the only hands.

Good point. I've always thought that Mara not knowing about the other Hands was Palp's way to manipulate her: via her ego.

 

My opinion of the nature of the "Emperor's secret Force-training program" that included Yasinda Bardak and Sarcev Quest differs slightly from that of Val's.

I don't believe there to be any explicit link between that training program and any "Emperor Hand Farm" that Palpatine had to grow Hands.

Yasinda Bardak and Sarcev Quest were members of the same "Emperor's secret Force-training program." That much is fact.

However, the fact that Sarcev Quest became an Emperor's Hand and that Yasinda was going to become one were related, but essentially coincidence.

I believe that while graduates of this "Emperor's secret Force-training program" may have a better-than-average chance of becoming Hands, the no explicit link between the two is described, nor are the goals of the "Emperor's secret Force-training program" ever clarified to be "production of Emperor's Hands."

It's kind of like being a member of the secretive Skull and Bones, which admits only 15 members a year. Not everyone who's a member of the group becomes a U.S. President. But, three U.S. Presidents have been Skull and Bones members. And next year's election will probably see two members running against one another.

That's the same way I think about this SWAJ15 "Emperor's secret Force-training program."

 

Well so people can make their own interpretations the exact related quotes are;

She was recruited into a special intelligence program secretly overseen by the Emperor himself. She was recruited due to her sensitivity to the force, and was to one day join the ranks of the Emperor's Hand... Her upbringing was so steeped in New Order propaganda that she firmly believed that the Force was figment of outdated superstitions. When the force entered into the training program she was undergoing, she marched straight into the office of the officer she believed to be in charge and demanded to be released from the program. The Emperor, knowing that she would be of use elsewhere, ordered her with granted...

...The man[Sarcev Quest], himself a graduate of the Emperor's secret force-training program, now visits Yasinda every few months to secretly evaluate any impact the Tasar crystals may have had on her."

 

On this list, "Dark Side Elite" refers only to Palpatine's nine Dark Jedi in the DE trilogy, and is not used as a collective title for those nine, the Secret Order, and the Emperor's Hands. Also, "Dark Side Adept" is not used as a collective term for the Inquisitorius, non-Dark Side Elite Dark Jedi, Dark Side Adepts as defined by Knight1192 on page 2, and Sith Knights. Not that Imperial darksiders can't be broken down into Sith, Dark Side Elite, and Dark Side Adepts, as illustrated by Senator_Cilghal on page 3, just that they aren't on this list.


Force-users of the Galactic Empire During Emperor Palpatine's Reign, Version 9.0--8/03/03

Aloo, Sim: Dark Side Adept
Ap-Llewf, Gwellib: Dark Side Adept
Argor: Lesser Prophet of the Secret Order
Bardak, Yasinda: Dark Side Adept (?)
Blackhole: Emperor's Hand; former Prophet of the Dark Side
Boc the Crude: Dark Jedi; Inquisitor (?)
Brandl, Adalric Cessius: Dark Jedi Master; High Inquisitor
Brandl, Jaalib: Dark Jedi; Inquisitor (?)
C'baoth, Joruus: Dark Jedi Master
Constable of Homunculi: Dark Side Adept
Darys, Ameesa: Inquisitor
Declann, Nial: Dark Side Adept
Defeen: Prophet of the Dark Side (possibly false)
Drayneen: Inquisitor
Droga, Jeng: Emperor's Hand
Durrei: Dark Jedi
Fass, Baddon: Dark Jedi of the Dark Side Elite
Goir, Vill: Dark Jedi of the Dark Side Elite
Gorc: Dark Jedi; Sith Knight (?); Inquisitor (?)
Gornash: Prophet of the Dark Side (possibly false)
Greejatus, Janus: Dark Side Adept
Gthull, Kvag: Dark Jedi of the Dark Side Elite
Halmere: High Inquisitor
Hethrir: Dark Jedi; Dark Side Adept
Ismaren, Roganda: Emperor's Hand
Jade, Mara: Emperor's Hand
Jalahafi, Shela: Dark Side Adept
Jalahafi, Teles: Dark Side Adept
Jax, Carnor: Dark Lord of the Sith; Sovereign Protector
Jedgar: High Prophet of the Secret Order; Dark Jedi
Jerec: Dark Jedi Master; Inquisitor; Sith Knight (?)
Kadann: Supreme Prophet of the Secret Order; Dark Jedi
Kanos, Kir: Royal Guard
Katth, Zasm: Dark Jedi of the Dark Side Elite
Kerr, Danaan: Royal Guard-in-training
Kogo, Vess: Emperor's Hand
Lumiya (Shira Ellan Colla Brie): Dark Lady of the Sith; Emperor's Hand
Lyn, Arden: Emperor's Hand; Follower of Palawa
Maw: Dark Jedi; Inquisitor (?)
Miralli: Prophetess of the Dark Side (possibly false)
Mordi, Krdys: Dark Jedi of the Dark Side Elite
Morthul: Dark Side Adept
Nefta: Dark Side Adept
Nist, Xecr: Dark Jedi of the Dark Side Elite; Dark Side Adept
Pic: Dark Jedi; Sith Knight (?); Inquisitor (?)
Quarmall: Dark Jedi
Quest, Sarcev: Emperor's Hand; Dark Side Adept
Redge, Loam: Inquisitor
Rillao: Dark Side Adept
Sa-Di: Dark Side Adept
Sariss: Dark Jedi; Inquisitor (?)
Sedriss: Dark Jedi of the Dark Side Elite
Sidious, Darth (Palpatine): Dark Lord of the Sith
Skywalker, Luke: Dark Jedi Master
Solusar, Kam: Dark Jedi of the Dark Side Elite
Stele, Maarek: Emperor's Hand; Emperor's Reach of the Secret Order
Tedryn-Sha: Dark Jedi of the Dark Side Elite; Dark Side Adept
Thimram, Savuud: Dark Side Adept
T'iaz: Dark Side Adept
Torbin, Laddinare: Grand Inquisitor
Tremayne: High Inquisitor; Dark Jedi; Dark Side Adept
Tyne, Vost: Dark Jedi
Vader, Darth (Anakin Skywalker): Dark Lord of the Sith; Dark Jedi
Vialco: Dark Jedi; Inquisitor (?)
Yun: Dark Jedi; Inquisitor (?)

Force-using Imperial Affiliates
Azrakel: Dark Jedi
Gepta, Rokur: Sorceror of Tund; Dark Side Adept
Korrot, Del: Jedi-hunter

 

"Lumiya (Shira Ellan Colla Brie): Dark Lady of the Sith; Emperor's Hand"

You might want to add another bit of info to her positions, she was also known as "Type: Dark Jedi" according to Galaxy Magazine #3.

"Argor: Lesser Prophet of the Secret Order
Jedgar: High Prophet of the Secret Order
Kadann: Supreme Prophet of the Secret Order"

Actually with Lesser Prophet, High Prophet, and Supreme Prophet, it's Lesser Prophet of the Darkside, High Prophet of the Darkside, and Supreme Prophet of the Darkside, according to the DSSB, IIRC.

Those positions have nothing to do with the "Positions within the Secret Order" as shown in Tie Fighter, and it's strategy guide, but are apparently more to do with the positions of the "Prophets of the Darkside" as a whole.

Yes the secret order happen to be "Prophets of the Darkside". But that doesn't necessarily mean that every "Prophet of the Darkside" has a position within the "Secret Order".

Likely it's very much possible that someone could be both one of the "lesser prophets, high prophets(is there a plural?), or supreme prophet" as well as, having the tatoo title within the Secret Order.

For example Maarek Stele, is probably a "lesser prophet", but he also has obtained the rank of "Emperor's Reach of the Secret Order". That rank could possibly even give him power over those in the secret order less than him. Probably at the point in time that he was "First Circle of the Secret Order" he probably could order those prophets that hadn't been initiated into the "Secret Order" portion of the "Prophets of the Darkside".

 

The prophets never show up in the "Stele Chronicles"(which was a novella that came with early versions of tiefighter), only in the Tie fighter strategy guide.

"It is interesting that none of the ranks in TIE FIghter match the Prophet ranks (lesser prophet, high prophet, supreme prophet). In fact, I don't remember him ever being called a Prophet. I think the game designers never intended the Secret Order to be connected to the Prophets, I think that was a later EU thing."

The Secret Order was supposed to be a brotherhood within the Imperial Navy, and you gained entry to it through completing secondary and secret mission objectives within missions, similar to how in X-wing you were granted the Kalidor Crescent and its upgrades for exemplary service. I believe it was in the Essential Chronology that they were associated with the Prophets, because it certainly wasn't in the game or the Stele Chronicles.

 

I answered that in an earlier post...

It's true that inside of the game, and strat guide there was no connection to the prophets and secret order, it was gamer #5 that brought the connection. The secret order are not even mentioned at all in "Stele Chronicles"

Interesting enough, the file names for the voice actor for the cloaked figure, were given the initals PD, for possibly Prophets of the Darkside, though.

Also didn't Tie Fighter have special medals too, along with the Secret Order, and the naval promotions?

 

Any particular reason why these dark-side Inquisitors, these Jedi hunters, were more powerful than Jedi who've attained the ranks of Knight and Master?

Perhaps they didn't go hand in hand against them, but with stormtrooper and military support. The Jedi of The Phantom Affair comic had to surrender himself, or the Mrrlst academy would be burned.

Undoubtedly moral coersion and mental blackmail bumped many Jedi in the end . . .

 

"I answered that in an earlier post... "

No worries, just meaning to elaborate, not contradict.

"Also didn't Tie Fighter have special medals too, along with the Secret Order, and the naval promotions? "

Campaign medals were given at the end of each battle. Technically, one could be able to go the entire game and never be inducted into the secret order (as far as I know), but still receive all thirteen campaign medals. I've never attempted that, personally. I've made General in every game I've played, and made Emperor's Hand repeatedly, but never Emperor's Reach.