Lit Books LOTF - First Time Read Thread - No spoilers post-Invincible

The GA's policy was...sensible in theory. The Corellians were not negotiating in good faith, (we the readers know this, the characters don't), they had remilitarized and were planning to re activate Centerpoint, and were at one point willing to fire on Coruscant.

No government would realistically tolerate what Corellia was doing, and even if they were willing to tolerate secession(the GA wasn't), the superweapon and the rhetoric of brinkmanship and aggression was not tolerable.

The commando mission at the beginning to disable it, and arrest Sal-Solo was...a rather reasoned move and restrained given the circumstances. Many governments would have acted far more harshly, but not doing anything that is rolling over, would have been far worse.

 

Well, not have Sal-Solo in power in the first place. Then everything is right with the world.

 

Saxan seemed surprised by the re-arming and only supported it because of Sal-Solo's actions. I'm not overly familiar enough with Gejjen since it's been a while since I've read LOTF and I more or less recall him being killed by Ben Skywalker after asking Omas to kill "Jacen".

 

Sending commandos to arrest members of a state government of the a federation is a HORRIBLE idea. It is a massive over reaction, it also should be illeagle. It is a VERY imperial response, in fact it feels like a dumber version of the mission if BattleFront2 (2005) when you got to Naboo.

Also WHY will the GA not tolerate secession? If systems want to leave why not let them?

Having just re-read "Recovery" I am surprised Han didn't just shoot Sal-Solo when he was in the room with him in Betryal.

 

Sal-Solo shouldn't have made it out of NJO. Then again, same can be said for a few characters (thinking Sovv, Scaur, Rodan, Pwoe, Ta'a Chume, the entire Imperial Remnant) just to name a few.

 

Also the entire Brarbel Species. I hate them so much.

Just finished Rebirth and Recovery. Rebirth had so many more first appereces, Ben Skywalker, Onimi and Shimra. Also Kyp does is dark act here, tricking people. I am being serious, hitting a Vong shipyard is smart and just what the Rebels used to do against the Empire (and DS2), but Kyp lying and deceiving his allies is bad.

Recovery was ok, but the Barabels bring it way down. In general they are annoying, how are the wild knights different from Kyp? Because we say so that's why, apparently.

 

Only cause they, like everything Troy Denning did with Hapans and Imperials, were overused.

He was very OOC in NJO, clearly an indication that Kyp was meant to be someone else. Like Fey'lya as well. Very OOC.

 

Realpolitik and prestige.

If Corellia, one of the wealthiest worlds in the galaxy, a founding member of the OR and a leading member of the NR and the old Rebel Alliance can leave-the GA's credibility is absolutely shot AND Corellia has access to the galaxy's last and oldest and most powerful superweapon. A gun to the head of any world the Corelian government wanted to extort, and a direct and imminent threat.

The GA could not afford to not react as it did.

 

I wish there were unabridged LOTF audiobooks. I don’t have time to sit down and read these long series anymore but binging FOTJ audio at work was fantastic.

 

I agree with this part. Secession should never be answered with violence. As a wise old man once said, there are alternatives to fighting.

Disarm the starbuster and monitor the secret fleet. But let Corellia go, if they want to. Diplomacy, economic strategies and peaceful solutions will have them asking to come back, eventually.

It’s called the Galactic Federation of Free Alliance’s, after all.

 

Doing this is itself provocation though and an act of war. The Corellians can and did try to reactivate Centerpoint as well.

Every government that exists has red lines where it has to act if it wants to maintain a credible monopoly on force.

 

This ISN'T regime change. Since the GA didn't have anyone there to take over. it is also a MASSIVE step up from a blockade, or the negotiating that was happening.

Corellia ISN'T a nation here though, it is a member of the federation, that should come with some rights, even as simple as "the feds won't attack you out of the blue", which the GA does here.

That's a stupid view then. The GA decided to become the Empire then, if parts of the federation can't be free to leave then it is just an Empire under a new name.

You mean Tyranny. if the GA is afraid (and Tyranny is the mask of fear), then it needs work constructively, with trade and security ties.
Yes Centrepoint is an issue and it needs to be disarmed, that I have no issue with, if the GA had just done that, then things would have gone better.

Also so what if the GA is sunk? Do better, use trade and security to show why the Corellians are being short sighted.

Yeah the disarming can be negoiated or if an armed act, well then that can also make Corellia look bad, and "We needed to disarm a superweapon" is a WAY better argument to start from then "we kidnapped a bunch of Corellia's leaders".

Superweapons are outside that often. If the GA did launch a mission to disarm Centrepoint, it might make Corellia look WORSE, since people would be asking WHY they are looking to reactivate the weapon.

To me the FREE in Galactic Federation of Free Alliance's is like the Democratic, the German Democratic Republic. Or the Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea.

 

Every war in history could have been avoided if “they just worked constructively and focused on diplomacy and trade”. It’s never that easy or that simple.

War is sometimes the last and only resort of states, and sometimes peaceful solutions don’t exist when different parties have irreconcilable demands and interests.

The only way such disputes can be resolved is through violence-not because everyone involved is evil, (though they may be), but because compromise is just not possible.

In the case of the GA vs Corellia-what the Corellians wanted and the GA wanted were irreconcilable. An independent Corellia with Centerpoint ready to fire is not what the GA would ever accept, and Corellia under the GA-humiliated, with its guarantor of independence and freedom destroyed or disabled was also…unacceptable.

 

That is not correct, since some wars happen because one state wants to destroy another and deny their freedom/existence.

This is a civil war, where some people no longer wish to be part of the government and rather than respect their wishes, or even trying to have a vote, the GA just attacks them.

In this case war is the FIRST resort of the state.

We don't know how either side feel about Centrepoint, since NO ONE TALKS ABOUT IT( do not even think it was mentioned in the negotiations in Betrayal). The GA never bring it up in the negotiations, nor do they mention the hidden fleet.

What do the GA do? They kidnap the leadership of Corellia. That was the plan.

That is to say aside from Centrepoint, the GA seems unwilling to be anything besides an empire.

 

Yeah, funny about that. You'd think the entire point of the negotiations was about Centerpoint and Sal-Solo's secret fleet.

 

Yep, but we KNOW that the GA NEVE mention the secret fleet, since Wedge still thinks it's a secret in Tempest.

 

So the GA was acting in bad faith just as an excuse to crush Corellia (Lumiya's influence)?

 

Just like Corellia did, keep the negoiations going until you can checkmate them.

The GA are the bad guys here, they choose not to make public the Centrepoint actions (which would turn the galaxy against Corellia and maybe get a multi-planet team on the station or at worst get a lot more people looking very closely at it.

Since the GA had already attacked Corellia, the secret fleet is now justified in the eyes of many, the GA isn't playing nice why should Corellia?

Also on Centrepoint, the GA's plan was NOT to disable it, but to destroy it. Destroy the homes and possessions of the civilains who and lives of those who can't get out in time. Again no attempt at negotiation just "OBEY". This is the plan that Luke signed off on, the plan of kidnapping, intimidation and likely murder.

As for the "terrorism" against Coruscant, that is all post the GA's actions, so again fault lies with them for starting it.

 

The GA needed to be the bad guys for this series and that was set up in Dark Nest, thus why the Jedi supposedly withdrew completely. Problem is, it is hard to root for anyone throughout, even the Heroes. It was likely everyone did 180 in personalities EXCEPT Kyp Durron.

 

I’m sorry what? The GA is not the bad guys here. Corellia negotiating in bad faith, and the inherent risk of Centerpoint together absolutely justify the action the GA took.

If Centerpoint had been effectively activated, Thrackan Sal Solo would have had a gun to the galaxy’s head.

That just isn’t acceptable. No government at least one that wants to not be overthrown or discredited to the point it can’t even collect taxes anymore would stand for this.

 

am I the only one who got a Game of Thrones vibe from this series?