ST Luke Skywalker's New (or Old) Jedi Order?

I would hate that. I don't need prequel-style Jedi to still exist but I don't want to be violently beaten over the head with the fact that they were absolutely wrong about every rule they employed by making their absolute diametric opposite be a perfectly successful force for good. If this is a thing and half these people don't go dark side by the end of the first movie I'd be very disappointed.

 

I'd love to see the underworld of Coruscant. Darth Maul Shadow Hunter or like in the X-Wing books. InvisSec and other descriptions were awesome.
Just don't show the PT temple.

 

That's all well and good, but in the end, Luke only beat Vader because he got angry and used the Dark Side. And then proceeded to get schooled by the Emperor.

Luke did not defeat Vader and the Emperor. He resorted to the Dark Side, which means all of Yoda's training failed, and only Vader's decision to become Anakin again and kill the Emperor stopped Luke's death.

 

Luke's training started aboard the Millenium Falcon on their way to Alderaan, after Obi-Wan's death Luke kept up with his training exercises the best he could without an instructor. We see from when he's captured by the Wampa that his skills have improved since the end of ANH, after training for weeks with Yoda he will have kept up with his exercises again by himself. He faced four tests that we know of, the first in the cave he failed, the second in Cloud City he failed, the third against Jabba's thugs he finally succeded although he did make a slight mistake/misjudgement. His final challenge and the one that we can assume that Yoda considered 'his Jedi trial' was against Vader and Palpatine, it was a test of his faith and a test of his courage, which he passed because he was prepared to sacrifice his life so that the Sith wouldn't have a new powerfull apprentice and force his father to make a choice.

 

No, Yoda's training succeeded, better than Yoda could've possibly hoped for, because Luke looked in the face of evil and told it "no." For all the training we were shown in ESB, Yoda spent more time teaching Luke about the philosophy of the Force, of the light and dark, good and bad, than he did his lightsaber skills (which we don't see at all; only in the early script and novel). Compare "How will I know the good side to the bad?" Luke, doubting himself by wondering if he'd even know when the time came, to "Never. I am a Jedi, like my father before me." Luke, who had come in to his own, and had no doubts. Yoda's training would have only failed if Luke had turned to the dark side, and followed the Emperor.

Now, you may say, "but Luke didn't kill the Emperor." This is true. But I think the symbolism of him throwing down his lightsaber, the act of defying evil itself, does far more credit to Yoda's training than if Luke had leapt forward and cut Palpatine down on the spot.

 

Luke is a Skywalker, that is why he could learn so fast and why Anakin (10-13 years of training) can keep up with Obi-Wan (35-37 years of training) in AOTC and ROTS.
Skywalker's learn twice (if not faster) as fast as normal Jedi. Luke's new Jedi won't be Skywalkers (except f maybe two or three of them), Obi-Wan Kenobi was strong in the Force and it took him 25 years to become a Knight, so it will take a lot longer to train them. Luke's lack of training shows and almost gets himself killed more than once. Taking on multiple Padawans will also increase the risk of one if not all falling to the darkside. I expect Luke to have a realistic number of Jedi, 5 Knights, 5 Padawans and Luke at the most. Any idea more than that is born from the EU and fanboy desire to see lots of lightsabers.

Edit: darth-sinister
"He wants to fight for freedom. He wants to see the Empire fall and a new Republic put in place."

Again, this nowhere seen or heard on film. In fact one of the cut-scenes of ANH and likely in the novels as well describes that Luke has no feelings about the Empire one way or the other. After talking with Obi-Wan his ideas toward the Empire are formed and that is when he decides he hates it, but still no mention of restoring a Republic by Luke, ever, not one time.

Yes, clearly some people are saying 30 Jedi, even hundreds. It doesn't matter if Luke goes by the Jedi Code or not, the fact is it would be impossible to train that many Jedi in such a short time. As I explained above that these Jedi will not be Skywalkers and thus learn much slower, also Luke would want to give his students proper training annot that crash course of training he got. Luke will also be wary of Jedi falling to the darkside and the chances of that increase with one guy training multiple people.

Luke will have Jedi, just not a ridiculous amount that the EU showed him with and nowhere near the PT level, this will be good for Star Wars.

 

Jedi Merkurian:

"mastery of Force techniques and combat skills on-par with those of Knights, Masters, and Council Masters of the PT"

Agree to disagree, Luke's lightsaber skills and knowledge of Force techniques are more on-par with the Padawan who is killed trying to escape the Temple in ROTS.
Luke will gain those abilities with time but he is not (in ROTJ) at the level of skill that TPM Obi-Wan was, nowhere near actually. Doing things like seeing the future, as you mentioned, have more to do with his natural Force talent and not his amount of Jedi training. The idea that Luke is some half-trained n00b stems right from the mouth of George Lucas himself and is visually obvious on screen while comparing Luke to PT Jedi.

The Council Master that was so easily killed by Jango Fett trained all his life to get those skills, he wasn't a Skywalker or even a Kenobi, he is probably your average Jedi (like Luke will find in the galaxy). He was a Jedi Master though with 40+ years of training and bites the dust so easily. This reinforces my point that Luke should give his Padawans the full course of Jedi training and not just show them the basics like he was especially with the Empire gone and plenty of time to do it. A few fully-trained Jedi Knights are better than a bunch half-trained Padawans, quality over quantity, my friend.

 

We just view his power/skill/knowledge level differently than when it comes to the OT but I think everyone here can agree that seeing a super-powered Luke in the ST is the way to go, Luke doing incredible things we never imagined, if done right of course.

 

As usual your arguments are very convincing. Luke is skilled in the Force. He's looked into the face of evil and said "no".

But does that mean he can successfully teach other to do it? ("I Know" runs and ducks for cover!)

I think training to be a Jedi is so much more than lift this rock, stop this laser blast. It's about looking into your soul and doing what you feel is right, of course. This can't be taught. It's an individual thing. Luke needs to select his apprentices carefully, lest he creates another Vader who will unbalance the Force once again - which may yet happen.

 

Alternatively - they start at 5, and in the first lesson or so, achieve the same proficiency Luke did in 5 minutes.

Ahsoka in TCW can also do it. In the ROTS novel, Yoda says to Anakin that once, most Jedi could do it, but now, only a few have that power.

Vader said that after seeing Luke had constructed a new lightsaber. Originally, this was portrayed as the last step in a Jedi's training.

However - TCW portrayed it as the transitional point between "youngling" and "Padawan".

As for navigating to Dagobah - I figure this can't be a "Luke-only power" - or something incredibly unique - more likely Obi-Wan's given him the coordinates.

Now - that doesn't mean Luke isn't special. But I do think he's not supposed to be seen as this unique genius Force-user.

 

He got out of the Carbon Freezing chamber in no time at all before Vader threw the switch.

 

True man, I remind myself of that during discussions like this. Plus Luke only had a couple weeks of training under a real Jedi Master. He is actually pretty kick ass once you consider that. I just hope they got Mark training hard because I'd like to avoid a Christopher Lee type scenario if possible..

 

We're back on this again?

Luke isn't/wasn't fully trained. Period. Pages ago we saw a quote from Lucas, the guy who WROTE THE STORY saying Luke wasn't fully training and because of his impatience he has to go face Vader and the Emperor only half trained.

As for your points. First, Luke didn't conquer Vader and the Emperor. He gave into his anger (something a Jedi shouldn't do) and if not for vader would have been killed by the Emperor. And what do you expect Yoda to say to him when he is dying - you messed up, you're not good enough, but good luck with all this - and then die?

Vader was impressed he built a Lightsaber. He clearly still thinks Lukes needs to be taught since he talks about the Emperor teaching Luke.

As for time training - 1) Says who, you? 2) Except they do things he doesn't/can't

You see Luke deflect half a dozen blaster bolts and he is an expert now? Apparently Luke is so confident and great with his Lightsaber that once in the death star and he gets shot at aprox. 539,493 times he doesn't take it out to deflect ONE bolt. What does that tell you? Luke was outnumbers by 10's. The Jedi in the PT when fighting the War were outnumbered by hundreds. Slightly different. When PT Jedi faced similar numbers to what Luke did at Jabbas they barely broke a sweat - watch the first 30 minutes of TPM.

That didn't didn't get shot because he didn't know Jango was there. He knew Jango was there (ie - connection to the force appears better), engaged him, deflected a few bolts and was then killed by a superior fighter. Luke simply didn't know someone was lining up a shot at his hand.

Lucas is visual film maker. If he didn't want that to be how it looked it, he wouldn't have made the PT the way he did.

 

On this point, I totally agree with you.

 

"I've left pretty specific instructions for there not to be any more features."

 

Except, as far as I know, he hasn't contradicted what he has said about Luke not being fully trained.

Considering the movie evidence is.....debatable at best, there is no reason to question the guy who WROTE the story.

 

he did not resort to the dark side. yes he gave in to anger, but then pushed it away before it was too late. The dark side is not one mistake, the dark side are made up of many choices.

your way off. Luke is far more powerful than any padawan in history by ROTJ. he had a fraction of a padawans training and much more mastery

 

edit

 

"your way off. Luke is far more powerful than any padawan in history by ROTJ. he had a fraction of a padawans training and much more master"

Listen, everyone and their grandma knows Luke has the potential to be the most powerful Jedi ever, but what you just said is untrue. During I-III and TCW we saw Padawans do things Luke couldn't do in the OT and they also possessed knowledge of the Force Luke still hadn't acquired when the credits roll in ROTJ. Luke is still quite impressive with so little training, I have no doubt he will be the most powerful Jedi ever during the ST.

I guess your second sentence is referring to the number of Jedi Luke will have? Luke will have a few Jedi that he has managed to train over the years but if you are expecting it to be like the EU's version of the Jedi and expecting more than around 10 Jedi, then you will be sorely mistaken because that is highly unlikely. Let the EU go man, for your own benefit, it's over. A new story will be put in it's place.