Mara Jade, and her waning fan base?

Tiershon_Fett: Emperor's most trusted servent is the equivalent of a rank differential to others. Trust doesn't equate to evil, it just relates to the quality with which she served it. Her evil, still, was of a lesser value than many other people serving the Empire. Especially those that weren't kidnapped in their childhood and brainwashed. Which still serves to my point.

I don't think she was the Emperor's most trusted servant. At all. She never did anything for him. She's just a worker bee. She was one of a million butt kissing flunkies that wanted to be his pet. Vader was his apprentice. Right hand man, the second in line, with tons of power, influence, and riches. It doesn't matter how shadowy someone is. She's calling no shots, making no decisions, has no authority, is unknown, and has no power unless it clears with Palps. As opposed to Vader, who has tons of power and command, outside of Palpatine. He has the authority to make unilateral decisions, kill people if he feels like it, and is the ultimate figurehead of the Empire, it's cold, brutal face.

How can you even think of putting an agent up to his level? It's just silly. Be realistic.

I don't think Palpatine trusted anyone. Vader he trusted the most. He had no reason to distrust Vader, until he started messing with his kid. Palps should have known Vader better than that. He knew him since nine, so he should have known better.

Palpatine used Mara, just like everyone else. He had a black, hard heart. He cared for no one. He tried to kill a 14 year old girl (Padme) for nothing, after got him his job! He's a pig.

Mara was not nearly as talented as Vader, or the others that were around, like Tarkin, Thrawn, the Moffs, the Mottis, Sate Pestage, etc. So therefore, so wasn't as important. She was used according to her value. Her value wasn't that great. She got no where near the big time, and she was one of many, though Palps fed her foolish vanity, and made her think she was more important than she was.

Where does it ever say she was kidnapped and brainwashed? How does anyone know she was kidnapped? Her parents could easily have sold her for favors. It would be more interesting. Your kid for all this wealth. Most morally compromised Imperial people would cave. And even if they didn't, they still would obey.

Brainwashing is really relative. If you watch Kill Bill, Bea was anything but brainwashed. She liked her job, and she liked her leader. She willingly served him. Until he screwed her over, she would have done anything for him.
I see Mara as a kid that was raised by the Hitler Youth Corp, and then she got some attention from Palpatine (you know how some people get around kings, they freak), and she believes his "I see you becoming the greatest of all the Adepts" line of BS, and there you have it. That is more practical.
Shira Brie, Ismaren, and others all grew up on Palpatine's estate and never even saw each other. (Of course, if your estate is the size of LA, I doubt you would.)

I thought you weren't reading my posts anymore.

I didn't notice it was you. I'm on the big screen today and the icons are moved over. No matter.

Previously, the hypothetical infidelity had been limited to a single incident between scenes on p. 63 of Balance Point... then I picked up on the potential implications and ambiguities you could read into that later scene, which could (hypothetically) imply something more...

But I'm treading on really dangerous ground here when it comes to trying to explain the morals and emotions of what's going on, so maybe I'll leave it at that...

I don't see what the big deal is. What's wrong with speculating? Who cares if Tramp has a stroke thinking about it? Maybe some people should lighten up. This is like that lying about sleeping with Lando thing.

 

...










EDIT: Okay...I'm going to try and respond intelligently. *slaps self* Stop that! Anyways...



Just because the Emperor is evil doesn't mean he can't trust. Mara was another tool to him, and the whole point of her being used just adds to my point of rank having a difference- she was just another pawn in a sinister game. Like everyone else in the Empire, had she realized what she had been doing and that it was evil, and had she cared, she could have and should have left. That makes her responsible; but just as responsible as any unnamed infantry guy on the front lines, or any of Palpy's spies. The fact that she is morally responsible does not equate to her being morally equal in depravity to Darth Vader, one of the masterminds of the atrocities.

When you see Mara ruthlessly slaughter thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of people she knew for a fact were innocent, then you could make an argument for it being hypocrisy. And if she hadn't said something as mundane and trivial and absurdly truthful as "You wouldn't have liked him so much if you knew him later" or something to that effect, when we were talking about Darth Vader, then perhaps we could make an argument about it being any more than a little out of line. And if Luke had been broken up about the incident, you might be able to make an argument to say that she was ridiculously offensive and emotionally damaging to Luke.

But you can't. Not about any of them.

This point is moot as far as I'm concerned.

 

I agree withthe above poster. Mara lying about Lando was hilarious. They just "pretended" for three years. lololol!

 

Do you mean the bizarre fictive scenario you dreamt up?

It was the same scenario depicted in BP, only it involved different people. So how come it is bizarre and the one in BP is "nothing"?

It never happened, so why should I comment on it? I spend enough time trying to defend Mara and Luke for things they did do.

I'm not asking you defend Luke, I'm asking you, using a hypothetical scenario, what you would think.

 

Tiershon_Fett: "I agree withthe above poster. Mara lying about Lando was hilarious. They just "pretended" for three years. lololol!


Actually...I was laughing at this:


"I didn't notice it was you. I'm on the big screen today and the icons are moved over. No matter. "

Sorry for the confusion.

 

I agree withthe above poster. Mara lying about Lando was hilarious. They just "pretended" for three years. lololol!

Yeah, and she was "doing undercover work" -- wearing Lando's shirt!

That was one of Zahn's lamer retcons. And why did he retcon it anyway? To feed his idea that Mara was earmarked for Luke as his soulmate (which is disproved by the fact that Barbara Hambly created Callista because it was her assignment to create Luke's soulmate), and they "saved themselves" for each other, or at least, Mara "saved herself" for Luke?

 

Shelley Say Luke did the same sort of thing in front of Jaina when she was 15: showed off his toned physique to her and said, "Don't drool on the carpet." Would you consider that improper, and if so, would the fact that Luke and Jaina are related by blood be the only thing making it improper? Would you consider it improper even if the author didn't "intend" it to be?

Shelley I'm not asking you defend Luke, I'm asking you, using a hypothetical scenario, what you would think?

Well, reading your scenario, and knowing the intent of the author, I would say it would be improper.

What I was saying was in the book with Anakin and Mara I did not interpret it as improper. I did not think Mara changed into the disguise with the intention of arousing her 15 year old nephew. I believe that Anakin's initial reaction was based on seeing an alluring ALIEN. I do not think at that point he was thinking "Wow, my Aunt Mara is hot!". I think upon seeing Anakin's reaction, it was probably best to make light of it, instead of embarrassing the boy.

Assuming I am right (I know that is hard for you to do ), and Mara did not get into that disguise to arouse her nephew, but to accomplish an undercover mission, how should Luke and Mara handled Anakin when he had his initial reaction to Mara?

Should Luke and Mara have become angry at Anakin? Should they have called him a pervert and kicked him out of the room? What do you think they should have done?

[I still think it was nothing.]

 

Mara was not ?over-praised? at the ?Expence? of Leia. You keep on talking about how Mara berated Leia for her grief at Anakin?s death, but have yet to post evidence to back it up.

I would like to see some actual textual evidence, too--I don't remember Mara actually berating Leia about anything. I would have remembered THAT.

How is Mara sending her kid away to do basically nothing on the Zenoma Sekot mission, when she criticized Leia for being neglectful, though she was the ruler of the entire galaxy, and Mara was unemployed, VAGUE?

The fact that you never post the actual segments from the novel showing where Mara criticized Leia makes the accusations sound vague....I understand why you don't post them. You don't own the NJO books, do you? I don't either--I don't want them, frankly. If I want to read them I rely on the library and B&N.

Esp after she has nothing but bad things to say about it's creator. She has nerve, she's married to his kid, has place in the galaxy because of his daughter. Has a family because of Anakin, uses his lightsaber, and talks crap about him. And really it only stems from jealousy, because she thought she was his equal in some way, which is a joke.

For crying out loud! FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! I can't believe that you are actually defending the evil Vader over Mara Jade (esp. when you just said that she could never have rivalled him in evilness). TF, that is sad. I apologize but it's true. That is just SAD.

I would feel the same way if this was Isard any of the Imperial agents we were talking about.

Now, if you could bring up a time in the books when Mara's ageing and gray hair were pointedly referred to,

I'll comment on this part: during her disease, Mara's skin was yellow, her eyes were yellowish too, her hair was falling out and she could hardly stand up. Does that sound attractive at all? Those parts were very pointedly referred to, also.

I do think that some of the things Shelley (and others) has brought up are relatively small incidents, many just little comments really, that have been blown out of proportion. And Leia's family blew off the fact that she was tortured? Unless the book specifically says that "Jacen and Jaina had heard vague reports of their mother's torture, but they knew she would recover sometime in the future so it didn't didn't matter too much to them" I'll definitely disagree.

She can't know nothing and be third in line for the throne, which I always thought was laughable for a 19 year old. Never would happen anyway, so why argue that point? She would have been killed by all the other people way above her if she'd tried.

Yeah, she probably would have. On a side note, I'll point out that Leia became a Senator at about that age and Padme became queen at an even younger age than that...nothing's impossible in the SW universe, it seems.

OK, let me ask you: do you think it's improper for a nearly 50-year-old woman to flaunt her body in front of her 15-year-old nephew (by marriage)? For her to talk to him in a suggestive manner? For the boy's uncle (by blood) to grin at it?

Now that's what I call over-analyzing (no offense to you Shelley, I'm not aiming this primarily at you). She wasn't flaunting her body, she just walked in the room wearing her disguise. What she said hardly qualifies as being suggestive (when people are in shock their mouths hang open)! Luke was grinning because Mara did a good job with her disguise (and no, not because it was revealing--did the book say it was?) and wasn't even looking @ Anakin.

Shelley, I still think the Anakin/Mara scene was nothing. I do not think your interpretation of that scene was the author's intent. I, at least, did not read it that way. Of course, if you can quote an interview with the author stating his/her intent was to show that Mara and Luke are vile and disgusting perverts and Anakin had incestuous desires, then

 

Shelley: Are you trying to dismiss my points as absurd?

Quite the opposite - I'm pointing out that you can (as a hypothesis) see what you detected in that scene with Mara and Anakin as part of a full-blown subtext, which can entail going so far as to question Ben Skywalker's paternity...

And?

And just because the character's emotions aren't laid out on the page doesn't mean they're not there...

What does she do or say which indicates she's grief-stricken and is just "pushing it down," as she has a tendency to do?

Um, the bitterness she lets out in her voice, and the black emotions she pushes down after voicing that bitterness?

Wait, I'm sorry, as she DOESN'T have a tendency to do. She didn't push down her anger and bitterness with regards to losing her job -- it ate her up for five years. She didn't push down her grief over the loss of her ship -- she bawled her eyes out over it. She didn't push down her distress and "terror" at leaving Ben with those horrible grief-stricken parents, Han and Leia. She didn't push down her grief and distress over Ben's brief kidnapping, and a couple books later, was still fuming about it.

Oh, Endor ate her up inside, but it was still something she left unexamined, and largely under control - it didn't actually affect her cool, professional capability... as to the Fire, I don't think she was just responding to the loss of her ship - that was a catalyst for all sorts of pent-up emotion....

And Ben... well, he is her kid... and maybe he's also all she - or the Galaxy - has left of Anakin Solo...



You have got to be kidding.

I guess I've forgotten where Luke, Han, Leia and Lando actually asked themselves why they did what they did in SbS...

Unless you mean it was more sincere to the type of person Mara is: she feels nothing unless the loss in question is HERS. HER job, HER ship, HER son.

It's the personal dimension that makes emotional bonds meaningful, though, isn't it...?

She also feels deep, dark despair for the entire damn Galaxy going wrong...

Is he?

Yes. Except, perhaps, inasmuch as Anakin's reaction may be what makes him whisk the kid away with him, rather than letting Mara recruit him as a telbun for her Kuati Baroness...

Does this somehow make it less disgusting?

What's disgusting, exactly? The age-gap? Or the relationship-by-marriage? At base, they're two human beings, mature adults in the eyes of the law...

But at the same time, that sort of thing does NOT occur in SW.

Consider Mezhan Kwaad and Vua Rapuung breaking caste out of love. Do the emotions involved matter less because it's an alien POV that makes it cause trouble for them, huh?

I saw the humor in what Tiershon_Fett said.

Which was a rephrasing of the same joke, IMHO...

Tiershon-Fett: How can you even think of putting an agent up to his level? It's just silly. Be realistic.

The way I look at it was that Mara was the one pure thing in Palpatine's life... remember, even Dark Lords of the Sith are human...

I see Mara as a kid that was raised by the Hitler Youth Corp, and then she got some attention from Palpatine (you know how some people get around kings, they freak), and she believes his "I see you becoming the greatest of all the Adepts" line of BS, and there you have it. That is more practical.

Actually, according to her own hazy memories in T3, she was raised on a forest-world somewhere, and was very young when Palpatine 'adopted' her...

Never mind. Impresive rant.

I don't see what the big deal is. What's wrong with speculating? Who cares if Tramp has a stroke thinking about it? Maybe some people should lighten up. This is like that lying about sleeping with Lando thing.

Oh, I agree - but it riles some people, and the mods have issued a firman...

Need to reread HoT2 to check that Mara's thoughts really do rule out any relationship with Lando... I'm not sure that her

 

For crying out loud! FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! I can't believe that you are actually defending the evil Vader over Mara Jade

Where do you get that I'm defending his evil? I'm defending his position as the father of Luke and Leia. No matter what, they came from him, and Padme, and they are alive because of him. It's got nothing to do with his personaily, but reality. Read that post again.


The way I look at it was that Mara was the one pure thing in Palpatine's life... remember, even Dark Lords of the Sith are human...

That's so laughable, I can't even begin to quanitfy it. Can you possibly be serious??

That's what's wrong with Mara fans, IMO, they assign far farmore goodness and "purity" (I feel like taking a bath now) to her, than has ever been shown. She ain't pure at all. Murderers aren't pure, honey.

She doesn't seem innocent to me, never has, and appears in fact kinda sleazy; a tarty girl that races cars and fixes speeders, etc. Not sweet and clean. How anyone can see her that way is apalling to me.

And besides, Palpatine's portrayer, Ian McDiarmid, has stated that he is totally soulless, totally consumed with hatred, and lacks thoroughly a conscience. HE is the evil one.
Why does everyone think of Vader that way? Have you not seen the films?

And if Mara makes a disctinction between herself and other Imperials, she's stupid, because she was exactly like them, she was one of them. Now she has the ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude. She sure pooped a brick when she found out she was only one of many. Did she forget that already?

 

Esp after she has nothing but bad things to say about it's creator. She has nerve, she's married to his kid, has place in the galaxy because of his daughter. Has a family because of Anakin, uses his lightsaber, and talks crap about him. And really it only stems from jealousy, because she thought she was his equal in some way, which is a joke.

Actually Mara has said many good things about Vader. And you must remember although Vader is technically Anakin Skywalker, Anakin Skywalker is not Darth Vader. Remember what Obi Wan said. "He ceased being Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader"

So is Mara actually insulting Lukes father as you claim she is if Darth Vader is not really looked upon as Anakin Skywalker? Second I am curious where do you find Mara insulting Darth Vader?

OWLC

 

Actually Mara has said many good things about Vader.

Where?

And she never skips the opportunity to go on about how stupid he was. She really was hateful and jealous of him.

 

I, Jedi

and where does she insult Vader?

OWLC

 

HTTE:

Luke referred to Vader trying to turn him.

"Vader?" Mara spat contemptuously. "Don't make me laugh. Vader was a fool, and skating along the edge of treason on top of it."

Well, reading your scenario, and knowing the intent of the author, I would say it would be improper.

As improper as Mara showing off her body to her nephew, then saying, "Don't drool on the carpet"? Or does the blood relation that Luke and Jaina share make all the difference?

What I was saying was in the book with Anakin and Mara I did not interpret it as improper. I did not think Mara changed into the disguise with the intention of arousing her 15 year old nephew.

So she figured it was appropriate behavior to prance around in a low-cut dress in front of her 15-year-old nephew, then coo such things as, "You may kiss our hand" and "Don't drool on the carpet"?

I believe that Anakin's initial reaction was based on seeing an alluring ALIEN.

In a low-cut dress.

I do not think at that point he was thinking "Wow, my Aunt Mara is hot!". I think upon seeing Anakin's reaction, it was probably best to make light of it, instead of embarrassing the boy.

It was best to not do it at all. Mara may not have actively wanted to "arouse" her nephew, but her behavior indicated she wanted SOME kind of reaction. It was inappropriate and unless she is hopelessly naive (doubtful), she would've known it.

Assuming I am right (I know that is hard for you to do ), and Mara did not get into that disguise to arouse her nephew, but to accomplish an undercover mission, how should Luke and Mara handled Anakin when he had his initial reaction to Mara?

Should Luke and Mara have become angry at Anakin? Should they have called him a pervert and kicked him out of the room? What do you think they should have done?

I have said what I think they should have done. Mara shouldn't have pranced around in a low-cut dress, showing off her body, in front of Anakin in the first place, then said suggestive things to him. And assuming she still did it, Luke should have said, "Come on, Mara. Put on a cloak or something," instead of standing there grinning.

[I still think it was nothing.]

I don't.


Mara was not "over-praised" at the "Expence" of Leia. You keep on talking about how Mara berated Leia for her grief at Anakin?s death,

WHAT?! When have I ever said Mara berated Leia for her grief at Anakin's death? I said that Mara berated Leia for Ben's disappearance, and that Luke felt her terror at leaving Ben with Han and Leia, because -- horror of horrors -- their grief might UPSET him. I said Mara had no sympathy for Leia and displayed no compassion for her.

but have yet to post evidence to back it up.

I would like to see some actual textual evidence, too--I don't remember Mara actually berating Leia about anything. I would have remembered THAT.

She berated her about Ben's disappearance, and ordered her and Han around like they were her servants. A couple of books later, she was still fuming about it, blasting Leia for being unable to protect Ben.

The fact that you never post the actual segments from the novel showing where Mara criticized Leia

In Rebirth: "She is a politician, and she thinks like one. That has been good for the galaxy, not so good for her children." This is in reply to Luke sniping at Leia for naming her son Anakin.

How nice of them, to be dissing Leia's mothering behind her back, especially since a) it is because of Luke that Leia missed out on some bonding time with her kids when they were small, because he insisted on sending them away to "protect" them; and b) Mara was not yet a mother, and had no idea what it was like to raise a child and fight for the galaxy at the same time. Also, Mara ended up doing the very thing she criticized Leia for: she sent her kid away (despite swearing she'd never let Ben out of her sight). Shouldn't that have been a time for some reassessments of her attitude toward Leia? But no.

At least it showed that

 

Thrawn McEwok...your theories are disturbing.

Are you saying Ben Skywalker is actually Anakin Skywalker's great-grandson?

Hmmm...


Tell me more...

 

Shelley: "HTTE:

Luke referred to Vader trying to turn him.

"Vader?" Mara spat contemptuously. "Don't make me laugh. Vader was a fool, and skating along the edge of treason on top of it."

You are using HTTE to pass judgment on the current Mara character? I won't even bother to touch that one.

Tiershon_Fett: "That's so laughable, I can't even begin to quanitfy it. Can you possibly be serious??

That's what's wrong with Mara fans, IMO, they assign far farmore goodness and "purity" (I feel like taking a bath now) to her, than has ever been shown. She ain't pure at all. Murderers aren't pure, honey."

How do you quantify laughability? Anyways, no one said that Mara her self was pure, I believe what was said was that Palpatine's trust of Mara was so. While I disagree, I don't think it was such a bad idea to generate that kind of response. After all, it couldn't have been mere coincidence that she was the only one able to her his telepathic messages from such a distance. She might have attached to him some sort of surrogate father feeling--no, it would be inevitable. And as for murdering...how many murder sentences are charged to the surgeons who administer court ordered lethal injections? It's the same principle, except you see the word "assassin" and think "scum of the Earth". The facts are, this just isn't true. I'd guess about 85% of her assignments were on actual criminals, and 10% of those who were just rivaling Palpatine for something or the other had other crimes that could be executed for. So the 'evil' was restricted to the remaining 'innocent' people that you speak of, such as that decoy guy and what not.

Thrawn_McEwok: "And Ben... well, he is her kid... and maybe he's also all she - or the Galaxy - has left of Anakin Solo... "

Can you say SW JERRY SPRINGER.



But seriously, Mara knew she was pregnant because she felt Luke's Force signature in her own body. While hilarious, I don't think the Anakin Solo thing will fly.



EDIT: THERE! Improved statistics.

 

I'd guess about 95% of her assignments were on actual criminals, and 3% of those who were just rivaling Palpatine had other crimes that could be executed for.

I hesitate to get involved in this debate but...those two figures you just quoted are totally arbitary. You just plucked them out of the air.

Let's get this straight: Whether Mara believed the people she killed were guilty or not is beside the point. To argue that every single one of Mara's victims were "criminals" is a logical fallacy. Its the worse case of begging the question I've ever seen.

 

Of course I pulled em out of thin air. Its what statistics are made for



And as for arguing that all those she killed were criminals...I didn't...my statistics were only to show that most of them were. And the rest were those Palpatine wanted offed cause they pissed him off.

 

And as for arguing that all those she killed were criminals...I didn't...my statistics were only to show that most of them were. And the rest were those Palpatine wanted offed cause they pissed him off.

Then your point is fallacious. I can offer these statistics:

75% of people Mara killed were only guilty of opposing a totalitarian dictatorship.

Proof? I'm not going to offer any more than you did.

 

Shelley, it is obvious you have one interpretation of that scene and I have another.

I want to point out that Mara was wearing a disguise that was obviously appropriate to wear out in public. Therefore I doubt it was so revealing that Anakin would have to leave the room.

In addition, Anakin may be 15 years old, but he is not a child. He wore a lightsaber and was in training to be a Jedi Knight. By the age of 15 he had been exposed to countless acts of death, destruction and suffering. Nobody seems worried about this. I guess when I look at the big picture, that A/M scene just seems insignificant.

 

The statistics were merely a stupid way of getting my point across-not the point itself. More of a catalyst.

 

Tiershon_Fett: That's so laughable, I can't even begin to quanitfy it. Can you possibly be serious??

Yep.

That's what's wrong with Mara fans, IMO, they assign far farmore goodness and "purity" (I feel like taking a bath now) to her, than has ever been shown. She ain't pure at all. Murderers aren't pure, honey.

Maybe 'pure' wasn't the best word - try 'innocent'. Not in terms of her actions, but her motivations. Now maybe Mara has more than enough vanity to make her human, but what she did, she did because she believed it was the right thing - necessary in defence of peace and justice in the GFFA. Think of her as an Old Jedi Order of one...

Add to that the fact that, by her own admission (in both Balance Point and Survivor's Quest, I think) that she "loved" old Palpatine - as a father, one hopes! - and you have someone who was uniquely useful to the Empire - because she wasn't driven by the Dark Side...

It's not to do with what she was doing, but why... decieved, manipulated and abused as she was, she was fundamentally, a good person - even as an Imperial agent...

And for the people she killed, we might look not at Vader but at Luke (the crew of the first Death Star) and even Artoo, who rams the Imperial flagship into the Galaxy Gun in Empire's End, taking out an entire planet, the entire Imperial fleet, and several billion civilians, including most of the resettled survivors of Alderaan...

But they do it innocently, clear-eyed warriors fighting for the greater good...

She doesn't seem innocent to me, never has, and appears in fact kinda sleazy; a tarty girl that races cars and fixes speeders, etc. Not sweet and clean. How anyone can see her that way is apalling to me.

Yeah, I'm sure that if she was on Tatooine, she'd be the sort to race Beggar's canyon in a T-16 and pick up power-converters from Tosche Station... sleazy, dirty, and nothing to do with the pure-eyed heroes of STAR WARS...



And besides, Palpatine's portrayer, Ian McDiarmid, has stated that he is totally soulless, totally consumed with hatred, and lacks thoroughly a conscience. HE is the evil one.

But he's still human. On the one hand, there's probably something both ruthlessly practical and maliciously cruel in Palpatine's treatment of Mara, and a harsh comment on how easy it is to delude good people into supporting and defending abhorrent regimes. On the other hand, Palpatine's a lonely, dysfunctional human being, and you could turn his actions on his own head, and see his training and raising of Mara as him giving warped expression to parts of his soul which he doesn't admit exists...

So she figured it was appropriate behavior to prance around in a low-cut dress in front of her 15-year-old nephew, then coo such things as, "You may kiss our hand" and "Don't drool on the carpet"?

"You may kiss our hand" was her acting in-character, "Don't drool on the carpet" was her mocking Anakin... and, perhaps, her acting in-character again, as "Mara" for Luke's benefit, rather than the "Kuati Baroness" for Anakin's...

It was best to not do it at all. Mara may not have actively wanted to "arouse" her nephew, but her behavior indicated she wanted SOME kind of reaction. It was inappropriate and unless she is hopelessly naive (doubtful), she would've known it.

Even though I'm not averse to the possibility that she was aiming to get some sort of reaction out of Anakin, she wanted to use the disguise to distract everyone around her from what was really going on, as part of her information-gathering mission... Anakin and Luke were, in that sense, a field-test...

So I wonder why the books in which she's recovering from torture have them thinking more about Mara than about their mother. I wonder why Mara's labor affected them more than their mother's torture.

Actually, that caused them pain and grief - and, IIRC, Mara felt the pain as well... the key question is why only A

 

thrawn McEwok Well, it's basically a postmodernist reading-against-the-text, fuelled by too much alcohol and too little sleep one slow morning in February

I read your Anakin/Mara paternity thread. It is hilarious. What were you drinking that morning...Everclear?

 

TMe - ANAKIN is Not the Father of Ben. Its not possible. The pregnancy would have been discovered a few months sooner. I think you need to stop being so silly!

And I didn't over read that scene in Balance Point. I didn't see anything bad in it. I don't over analyze one little line to see stuff that wasn't there.

Well, Mara was trying to keep the disease away from the unborn Ben, and all her strength was concentrating on that. She probably couldn't do both - the disease had weakened her so much.

As for her looking "beautiful as ever" after the birth.......well, I think she knows some beauty secrets that she hasn't shared with the rest of the GFFA.

 

Mara's feelings about Darth Vader may be partially based in jealousy, but also in loyalty (misplaced though it was). Palpatine was like the father Mara never knew (because he had him KILLED, but enough about that...). She grew up in the Imperial Palace on Coruscant and though I doubt she spent all that much time with Palpatine (what with oppressing the galaxy, meditating on the dark side, and looking for a means to cheat death eating up so much of his time), we know from his relationship with young Anakin Skywalker in AOTC how caring and supportive he can seem when he wants to. If someone killed your dad, even if you later found out your dad wasn't such a nice guy, you know you wouldn't think fondly of that person. Mara's feelings toward Vader are a hold-over from her days with the Emperor and might even be residual effect from the vision Palpatine sent her through the Force when Vader killed him.