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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Saga Mega thread: Sequels and spinoff films and the overall saga

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by anakinfansince1983 , Jun 20, 2017.

  1. TheDutchman

    TheDutchman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2015
    Droid....PLEASE~!!
     
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  2. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2015
    This news gave me a chuckle. It seems the Disney Wars are beginning to face even more problems with their directors thanks to "creative differences" than the DC films have. These guys were eliminated because they disagreed with Miss Kennedy herself... I didn't think she had any say in the creative process of these movies, especially since we were promised that the directors had 100% creative freedom to make the movies they envisioned. I guess you can't take a mega-corporation, not unlike the ones that formed the Separatists in AotC, for their word (though I didn't swallow that hollow lie in the first place). Kennedy isn't a creative mind, she is a corporate suit. I guess they clashed over aspects that had something to do with commercial viability, or her very strict views on how women should be represented in the Star Wars galaxy.

    Kennedy really is the ruthless Emperor figure I always took her for. I imagine a significant amount of LFL employees have started to miss good ol' George. It is human nature after all to not realize the value of things until you've lost them. This whole Disney takeover reminds me of Palpatine (Kennedy, embodiment of corruption) legally, but still through foul play, getting rid of Valorum (Lucas, baseless accusations of corruption). Padmé (the fans) willingly aided him, because she thought he'd be a better leader, only to regret her decision much later on when Palpatine's true nature was revealed. This is the turning point, now that Kennedy has executed Order 66 on a set of directors. The takeover is complete. :emperor:
     
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    You don't have to like Finn but let's not turn this into a "Finn is awesome!" "No he's not!" back and forth. That's pointless.

    I don't really give thought to "chemistry" because I just don't care, but if there is going to be a romance at all in the ST, I hope it is Rey and Finn or Finn and Poe.

    There were some people who said Cassian and Jyn had "chemistry" or were "meant to be" in Rogue One but I was happy with the way things were set up. They bonded, they became friends, but it wasn't romantic.
     
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  4. TheDutchman

    TheDutchman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2015
    Whills, I'd bet there is more than a little bit of truth to this.
     
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Comparing Disney to Palpatine and accusing Kennedy of "executing Order 66" definitely qualifies as bashing. Don't do it again.

    I am personally not regretting the Disney takeover at all. Lucas was not planning on making any more Star Wars films and TCW had jumped the shark.

    Disney products will be the same as Star Wars products pre-Disney, meaning some will be great and some will be terrible.

    And demanding that any future Star Wars director avoid horrible sexist stereotypes does not constitute "strict views of how women should be represented in the Star Wars galaxy," as there are about a million diverse ways to represent women that are not horribly sexist. And there is no excuse for any movie in the 21st century to portray women in horribly sexist ways unless it is trying to send the message that sexist stereotypes are not cool anymore.
     
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  6. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Is Jar Jar Abrams allowed? I love Jar Jar, so it's a compliment.
     
  7. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    OK, I'm not sure what part of any of this is not clear after the opening post and two pages of thread:

    Criticism of individual Disney/LFL films is fine. Criticism of the work of individual directors is fine. Criticism of pre-Disney LFL films is fine. Criticism of the work of George Lucas is fine.

    Using this thread as a platform to bash Disney as a whole is not fine. Using this thread as a platform to complain over and over about the Disney buyout is not fine.

    If you have to ask if you can post it, then don't.

    Bazinga'd and I do not want to start handing out bans. Continued attempts to turn this thread into "Disney sux amirite?" will result in just that, however. (Or "Lucas sux and Disney is da GOAT," if such a post were ever to occur.)

    Now...carry on.
     
  8. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Adding onto what anakinfan said, we made this arrangement for those of you who indicated that you don't want to go to the four specified boards we have to discuss the New Films, for whatever reason.

    Please do not abuse that act of good faith by blatantly disrespecting the instructions given.
     
  9. Dark Ferus

    Dark Ferus Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Funny line of the same nature as

    "Hurry up goldenrod or you're going to be a permanent resident."

    Truly, both those lines crack me up, in a good way.
     
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  10. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015

    Well, we have to look at it like this; The entire reason for the creative differences was because the two directors wanted to make the Han Solo film more of a comedy, in which Kasdan denied(Why? Are you going to make this some pseudo-psychological thesis on self centered bastards? Han Solo should be a comedy. If anything, it should be close to the pulpy-gung-ho western style movie that does focus on comedy). Now when you hire someone, they do kinda have to abide by their rules since the two agreed to work with them. But this isn't the first time Disney has warranted a "directors shift" based on ideal differences. Remember Gareth Edwards and his film being totally revamped? Disney Brought in another director to completely rewrite the moviedue to it not being "Star Wars" enoughdespite that being the main point. So the "creative freedom" is a little skewed here and doesn't seem to be really explained in depths... You have to read between the lines on what they mean by that, and normally companies won't just let you do what you want, especially ones like Disney when handling the Marvel and Star Wars films. These products are extremely valuable to them, and it is very clear that they are serious about it.

    Eh... Business is Business I guess. Shouldn't be surprising to any of us really..I'm not even surprised folks respond in shock. I don't think they notice how things run with Disney.
     
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  11. TheDutchman

    TheDutchman Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2015
    So what board SPECIFICALLY is ok to have a conversation (which you call complaining) about Disney's handling of SW. Or is that conversation not allowed anywhere?
     
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  12. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    After your ban is served, try finding a relevant topic in the JCC.
     
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  13. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Oh man! How did Kennedy get so confused that she messed this one up!?

    She was supposed to fire Colin Trevorrow for being a sexist creep, never directing a good film, and making the embarrassment The Book of Henry.

    Did she forget his name on the way from the studio to the set? Just write it down on a piece of paper!

    Crap! Now, it's even more likely we'll be stuck with Trevorrow. Disney can't keep firing and replacing all its directors. That'll make them look like they've never had any idea what they're doing from the get-go!
     
  14. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Goodbye, Cryo. You've been warned so many times, by so many moderators.


    No sith.

    But they're clearly going to try -- much like Vader chokes subordinates that displease him.

    Oh, but we're not allowed to make any "negative" analogies to the existing films, so excuse me.

    In fact, it seems we're not really allowed to discuss the Disney transition at all; only "constructively". Which suggests comparisons between Disney and the Empire are actually valid (think about it).
     
  15. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    I've never viewed Colin as Sexist. I say that issue comes with him and his characters all around(except SNG. I thought he did a pretty good job with it). If anything, Kathleen should have picked a better candidate in the first place. I think Colin should have focused on his passion project because to be honest, I was more interested in the concept of Henry than his SW film.
     
  16. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    The comments detailing the type of person Kathleen was is pretty much where they wanted to draw the line. Same with the sexist comments. No proof at all to show Colin is someone who hates women(in fact he expressed the opposite) or proof that Kathleen is a ruthless business women.

    Though on the last part, you do have to have a strong no nonsense backbone in the industry. Might even have to become apart of the system(as we see here with Kathleen wanting to please the fans yada yada). Like I said before; it's corporate. We all know what that means..
     
  17. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    I'm halfway making a joke in my post above. It seems like almost everyone in the new films sub-forum is united in the fire Trevorrow campaign, and I'm building on that. I just don't think he was the best choice.

    I like to give people a break when it comes to racist/sexist accusations (again, making a joke above), but you may want to watch this short written and directed by Trevorrow. I think it shows that he has some problematic issues with women:

     
  18. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    (On phone)..I watched this short and thought it was stupid funny. It's obviously the type of offesive humor that is only for some. This doesn't really say much to me as to him handling women wrong. Again, an old short film when they were young. The same can be applied to Lucas when he thought it would be funny for Indy to have relations with a 12 year old. Should I judge him now based off of this thought process when he was young and brash?

    I say what really should be taken for an account are his 3 most recent movies, JW, BOH and SNG to create a conclusion of his treatment of women. I "can" say that he draws more upon tropes and tries to create a unique story around them(doesn't always work). And I haven't seen all of BOH(though I get the idea of it now) I can say that he genunily wanted that movie to be empowering(Looking for the quote now).

    EDIT:

    http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/features/857813-colin-trevorrow-book-of-henry

    Not the exact quote but something similar.

    CS: There’s a theme in the film that I think shows up to different degrees in both “Jurassic World” and in “Safety Not Guaranteed” about how age doesn’t necessarily matter as far as who you are.
    Colin Trevorrow: That’s interesting. That’s also probably linked to a sense that we all want to go back to our childhood. That’s what “Safety Not Guaranteed” is about and it’s also what “Jurassic World” is about in that we, as an audience, want to go back to our childhood. “Book of Henry,” then, is a story of a mother who has yet to fully embrace the responsibilities of adulthood. The ethical responsibilities of being a parent. It’s funny. You don’t plan out the kind of themes that you address in the story you want to tell but, over time, it seems like patterns start to form. I think you may certainly have found one. You’ve got me figured out.


    Another quote that further embellishes his ideal for the movie;

    CS: I’ve heard you say that you directed “Jurassic World” as a child. Did you approach “Book of Henry” through the same eyes?
    Colin Trevorrow: I directed this film as a parent. This was very different. This film was a catharsis for me. I was able to take in all of my fears as a parent of two kids. It allowed me to approach story from a different perspective… I had to take to approach it from that angle because it was personal in a different way.


    So I feel we can at least conclude that he did have this movie being in relation with himself intentionally through the mother of the story. How the main female character is treated throughout the movie can only be up for you to decide. I don't see his treatment of women "bad" more so his characters needing help in making a more diverse dynamic and character structure.
     
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  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I have no idea whether Trevorrow is sexist or not. I would be concerned if he or any other director promoted a "women are supposed to be sweet and demure and submissive" plot point in Star Wars. Pretty antithetical to what Lucas promoted with Leia in 1977.
     
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  20. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Regarding Solo I would prefer a straight up comedy. Would be a breath of fresh air to see an overt style change for the majority of a Star Wars film. Plus I think Han is at his best in the goofy moments, like when a tool box falls on his head or a little Ewok gets too cozy with his leg. In many ways Han is proto-Jar Jar, so a clownish emphasis makes a lot of sense. I suspect Kennedy and company prefer something more overtly "serious" where a self-centered, slightly jerkish Han becomes a little less so, and quips a bit while taking out some stormtroopers. I feel like I already got that with R1, so color me less interested in untitled Solo spinoff than I was prior to the creative shakeup.

    Regarding Home Base, it strikes me as a poor man's episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. A crass insistence to reject social norms and proprieties in the form of a casually despicable main character is the comedic point. Perhaps this form is less relevant and not quite as celebrated as it once was, but this short film is 15 years old. I don't think it says anything about what to expect from an upcoming Disney blockbuster. Although for what it's worth, I found the mother's insistence that her sexual affairs are her business and hers alone to be at least one empowering and memorable moment in an otherwise forgettable short.
     
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  21. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    If Ron Howard takes over the film, I think you may see an element of what you described, ezekiel. I think the film would be vastly more enjoyable with him at the helm than what we would have gotten otherwise.
     
  22. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015

    I don't disagree. I would really like to the the previous director's vision however.. One thing I hated about R1 was that it was a weird mix of BOTH visions that did not correlate with each other because Disney forced their hand on Gareth. I just hope we can at least get a clear vision on what this movie is.

    Not to mention; Disney doesn't like delays. If they are trying to rewrite the movie, then it will be a disaster.
     
  23. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002

    Well my whole point was that I wanted more than an element. Although, true, some aspect of that could be maintained if Howard channels what he did with Madmartigan (who stepped in poo, just like Jar Jar!!!). Then again Howard is also one who can really hammer home a self-serious sentimentality, so who knows what he would deliver if he steps in.
     
  24. Seeker Of The Whills

    Seeker Of The Whills Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2015
    So basically...
    [​IMG]
     
  25. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    The LEGO Movie is the only thing of Lord and Miller's that I've seen to date, but judging by that it would seem that their brand of humour generally leans toward send-up and, to an extent, breaking the fourth wall. Star Wars thus far has tended to avoid that. I suspect the issue of humour might be the cause of the supposed 'creative differences' between the studio and the directors. Maybe Lord and Miller's film was starting to feel more like a parody of Star Wars, than actual SW. Considering that Kennedy reportedly backed Kasdan in this debate, it seems unlikely that the screenplay that was the issue here, just the interpretations of it that were being filmed.
    Plenty of good movies have been made, which do use send up style humour, such as Blazing Saddles, Mel Brooks' riff on the Western genre. But whether that style of humour would work in a SW context is a different matter IMO.
    Anyway, to whoever has to finish that movie...good luck, because I don't envy your job.[face_good_luck]

    Regarding Colin Trevorrow. At this point it seems apparent that people have legitimate issues with his track record on female characters. Nevertheless, I doubt the issue is so severe that he needs to be fired. Now that he has a TBoH sized chip on his shoulder, I'm sure that Trevorrow realises the importance of delivering a satisfying IX more than ever. Even if he did come up with any strange notions of having Rey duel Kylo in stilettos (unlikely IMO), he'd still have to get it past Kathleen Kennedy and her board of executives at LFL, and over 50% of said executives are women.:)
    In any case, I really don't think that Trevorrow is the raging Misogynist that parts of the ST forums seem to have convinced themselves he is. Granted Jurassic World isn't a perfect movie, but I certainly don't remember walking out of it feeling like I'd just read a blog on ReturnofKings.com. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    P.S. I like Finn. At the time of posting he's my second favourite ST character after Maz.
    [​IMG][:D]
     
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