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Saga Mega thread: Sequels and spinoff films and the overall saga

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by anakinfansince1983 , Jun 20, 2017.

  1. Harbour

    Harbour Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2015
    George concept triggered me in a good way. Yep, id love his ST even if it was filled with some bad lines. I just love his mix of fantasy/sci-fi vision.

    Btw, i wonder, was Mortis arc officially the idea of George or it was Filoni's idea George accepted? I always had the problem with Force personification, and the concept of Father/Son/Daughter always bothered me. I don't think it fits into George's concept of force from 1-6 episodes.

    Microbiotic concept of Whills is much more logical in the context of what George told us about the force. It can even make Mortis arc less mind boggling, if Father/Son/Daughter would turn out to be the hallucinations in the heads of Anakin/Kenobi/Asoka via Whills influence, that can only find that way to let humans/twilek grasp the stuff they wanted to explain.
     
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  2. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    I think the two things are inextricably linked throughout the saga. Character's perception of their presumed or prescribed destinies influences the choices they make in fulfilling or resisting that supposed destiny. Those with great potential, for power and destiny, make choices that not only impact themselves but also the lives of those around them.
     
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  3. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    It came from Lucas. Filoni actually arrived late to the meeting where Lucas started to explain that story arc.

    Those beings are not the Force, even though they were conceived as personifications of each side for the purposes of the story.

    Mortis is more like a microcosmos of the Star Wars universe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  4. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler JCC NASCAR Playoff Tournament Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I like this idea over in the Literature Forum for a possible ST Lucas could have done.
     
  5. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    That's very creative and pretty cool in a turn-everything-on-its-head kind of way, but... I really don't think the Whills are bad guys :)
     
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  6. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 5, 2001
  7. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 12, 2011
    While I don't believe the Whils are 'bad', I think their perception of good and evil might be slightly different than ours, kinda like Bendu in Rebels.

    You're right. I also found Dave Filoni's interview with Rebel Force Radio on 21 March 2014. There are some interesting tidbits about the Priestesses and the Ones in it.

    JM: Everyone's wondering: are they the Whills?
    DF: That's an interesting question. I would say no to that, only because that never came up when we were talking with George. I don't think that's impossible; it had crossed my mind, when we were making it, that that's a possibility. So I think that's a fair answer. The way I see that character, I think you could talk about that character as a singular or you can talk about them as a plural. [...] I'll give you another little tidbit here before I go, which is: there were some lines that directly connected to Mortis in this arc, that I ended up having to cut because they were sidebars to the main plot of Yoda, but at one point the Priestesses discuss the Father on Mortis, and basically consider him very narrow in his view of the Force compared to what they are, and I would say that that's very true. They are basically, to me, one being, whose consciousness is divided into five separate apparitions, and five different types of archetype; over the years her separation of body and soul from the Force had become these kind of archetype-faces within the Force that can speak to you from beyond. That's a little bit of insight into what the Priestesses are.
     
  8. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler JCC NASCAR Playoff Tournament Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Which, could make for an interesting conflict.
     
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  9. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Yes, I vaguely recall that interview. Again, they could be related to the Whills, but not necessarily so. Like Filoni said, George didn't mention them at all for that story arc when he could have easily done that.

    In the ROTS script, Qui-Gon says that the secret "was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills" and later Yoda says that "the secret of the Ancient Order of the Whills, [Qui-Gon] studied".
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  10. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 12, 2011
    Serenity also did say that they watch and study all those strong with the Force in the universe but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are Whills. We also don't know whether Qui-Gon passed his trials on the Force planet with the Priestesses like Yoda did or if it was this Shaman of the Whills who tested him. I kinda like that stories don't give straight answers to everything. I'm sure if Lucas went through with this plan, he would still have left some things very ambiguous for us to figure out on our own, like he did in both the OT and the PT.
     
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  11. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    That's very interesting in light of what GL told JC about the Whills. Did the concept of the Whills evolve into something very different in his head or would there still have been an Order of the Whills?
    I just find it fascinating that we still have no idea what they are/would've been, even though it may seem like we've gotten concrete answers!
     
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  12. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    If anything, the concept of omniscient beings remained consistent. If the details ever changed is a mystery.
     
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  13. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Isn't it possible that Lucas didn't want Filoni to know that the Priestesses are Whills?
     
  14. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    That's definitely a possibility.
     
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  15. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Force Ghost star 4

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    Oct 1, 2012
    I would love for Ep.9 to go into the concept of the Whills. Or see this concept be expanded upon in some other serious way, perhaps a separate trilogy of movies.

    Side note: Lucas doesn't imply that the Whills are microscopic or "microbiotic." That would be midi-chlorians.
     
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  16. grd4

    grd4 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 11, 2013
    Regarding Lucas, I find myself in a paradox:

    1. The two Disney ST movies are so unpalatable as to be non-canonical.
    2. Any of Lucas's ST conceits--despite some of his past failings--would have been vastly preferable to the detritus offered up by Abrams, Kasdan and Johnson (all of whom were, when not shamelessly strip-mining, rehashing, and degrading Lucas's narrative, were "subverting" it in some of the most shockingly dreary ways imaginable).
    3. It may very well have been for the best that Lucas's Saga ended in 2005. Each of the six films is imperfect--to wildly varying degrees--but nonetheless constitutes an effervescent, expansive work of art.

    A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, a husband and wife fell alongside their republic; a generation later, their son and daughter redeemed all by encapsulating their very best facets. And everyone lived happily ever after.
     
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  17. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 10, 2017
    I get the feeling you don't like the new movies very much. Just a vibe I'm getting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  18. grd4

    grd4 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Oh, I actually regret wasting the $20 I spent paying to see TFA and TLJ in theaters. Unless I end up having kids, I won't be exposing myself to the Mousehouse Saga again.

    Let it be said, though, that I was initially open to the prospect of enjoying them. Blade Runner 2049 blew my mind last year--it's every bit as good as the original--proving that I can be receptive to "revisits" involving old and new talents.
     
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  19. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager -King of the North star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    @grd4 Constructively criticizing the ST is one thing, bashing the hell out of it or Disney is something quite different. Stay on the correct side of that line.

    @anakinfansince1983 @cubman987
     
  20. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 12, 2011
    Seems like they're really trying to tie all 3 trilogies together and I like it. :D
     
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  21. DBPirate

    DBPirate Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 20, 2015
    Eh, the trailer didn't really do it for me. If they had just followed George's treatments, they wouldn't have needed the final film to tie the trilogies together. They would have been tied to begin with. I've yet to understand why they made three characters with no relation to the Skywalkers (or any previous character, for that matter) the main characters of this trilogy. Anakin's grandchildren made more sense.

    Are we allowed to discuss ROS in this thread or is this only for released films?
     
  22. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Interesting. Vaguely reminiscent of the "Matrix" sequels: "the prophecy was a lie; it was all another system of control."
     
  23. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 12, 2011
    It's not really "new" but this is still Bob Iger's version of the event which I think is still worth mentioning.
     
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  24. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    "We’d intentionally created a world that was visually and tonally connected to the earlier films, to not stray too far from what people loved and expected, and George was criticizing us for the very thing we were trying to do."

    Of course he was. They deliberately set out to do what he wouldn't have done in a million years: let the fans dictate the terms. They were under no real pressure to do that; they pressured themselves into it.
     
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  25. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    "I've built this machine. This is how the machine works and how it's meant to be. It's been a best-seller for decades."
    "Thanks for the instructions, but I think we know best how to handle the machine."
    ** The machine breaks in the process / customers don't care about the machine anymore **
    "Why didn't you follow my instructions?"
    "Why are you criticizing us? We only did what the customers wanted."
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019