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Saga Mega thread: Sequels and spinoff films and the overall saga

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by anakinfansince1983 , Jun 20, 2017.

  1. oierem

    oierem Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Yeah, there's the irony.

    But let's not fool ourselves either. The ST is being a huge hit, and the divisive response from the fandom is nowhere as bad as with the PT.

    (Personally, I couldn't care less about the ST and I love the PT, but it is what it is)
     
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  2. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    I don't care either, but I beg to differ with that statement. I think it's much worse.
     
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  3. Outsourced

    Outsourced Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    I think it's exactly the same. This fandom is cyclical in nature. We get something new. It isn't EXACTLY what we wanted. We nitpick it to shreds. It grows on us. Public sentiments change. It becomes a loved part of the saga. Then we find something new to hate. It's happened with every single big venture since 1999. First the PT, then The Clone Wars, then Rebels, then the ST, then Resistance. We're gonna reach the same point that we're at now in about 10 years, where people absolutely love the ST, and deride whatever the newest thing is.

    But I think we should also point out that this is just within the fandom. The general audience doesn't care about most of this stuff like we do.
     
  4. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    [​IMG]
     
  5. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    I don't see how the response to the PT in it's day is any less divisive than the current response to the ST. I can't see an argument for that in any way.
     
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  6. oierem

    oierem Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Well, I wasn't a SW fan back in 1999, but I was by 2002, and my impression is that both Clones and (specially) Sith were considered quite awesome when they were released, and the consensus was that with ROTS Lucas had somehow "redeemed" himself for making Phantom Menace. I remember that my local newspaper awarded both Episodes II and III four stars out of five (years later, that same newspaper would claim that the whole PT was horribly awful, childish and disgraceful).
     
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  7. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    My paper did that too. Hell, my paper made it to the the TV spot for ROTS: "and the Chicago Tribune says, "Episode III delivers!"

    To be fair tho, different reviewers too. Another article from 2005 bashed the movie from the same paper.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
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  8. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Well I saw all three in cinemas back in the day and for TPM, the anticipation was huge, possibly too huge as it created unrealistic expectations.
    But people were hyped and saw the film and then came the divided reactions.
    I felt it was just ok, barely above average. But that made me a PT-defender among my friends and family.
    Ironically more than one person I know called TPM "A Disney film." and not in a good way.

    AotC had less outrageous hype, people were mixed on TPM.
    But at first it was received better among the fans. "AotC gets it right." and so on.
    It corrected what people had complained about with TPM. There was more action, Anakin was older and darker, there was less Jar Jar.

    But this did not last, after a few months the feelings were again mixed with the fans.
    AotC also had worse legs at the BO and dropped faster and it did not help that it was beaten by not one but two films at the domestic BO.

    Take the Yoda scene, lots of people cheered when that happened. But after a while people got tired of it.

    RotS had better reviews by a considerable margin and was better liked at first and that feeling did not fade as much within the fandom. RotS is commonly voted as the best PT film.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
     
  9. DarthTalgus

    DarthTalgus Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Agreed, with the ST I would say it's about a 50/50 split if you like or dislike the Sequels. Hence why the debate is so heated, you either love it or hate there aren't many in between. But I remember the days of the PT, when the most common opinion was that they were bad movies and you would get ridiculed a lot on this forum and many other forum for openly liking them. I remember people being outright vicious and condescending about it.
     
  10. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    The PT also still gets crapped on by the media while the ST doesn't. ScreenRant just published an article 2 days ago titled "The PT isn't better than the ST." The media in general is very defensive about the ST. Even though the PT does get some better publicity, it still isn't uncommon to hear a "positive" PT article open up, "Sure the prequels were garbage and George Lucas should pay for his crimes, but..."
     
  11. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Then again, it also isn't uncommon for an article about the PT to bash the ST (or Disney) before talking about the positive stuff in the PT (which may or may not also include snide remarks against the prequels as well). The problem therefore doesn't lie with something being treated differently than another thing, but with some people merely being incapable of talking positively about something without bashing something else.

    The worst thing about that isn't really disliking something though - that is perfectly normal after all - or even the bashing in itself, but the firmness in which this particular opinion gets portrayed as if it were a fact. There is a difference between stating that you dislike something, and stating it in a way which suggests that everyone who likes it is stupid or doesn't understand the franchise.


    Talk about the ST somehow being more divisive than the PT seems rather absurd to me though. There isn't any proof for that at all. All measurable factors disagree with that idea. That whole thing seems more to be sparked by the bashing of the ST being a current thing, while the bashing of the PT is distant memory by now, which makes it look smaller than it actually was. Especially when you take into account that the internet and social media are much bigger now than they were back then.

    Which isn't to say that the prequels weren't also on the more positive side of things. By all accounts available, all prequel movies were more liked than disliked, and with ROTS it isn't even close. The thing is, the majority of people simply doesn't get involved in discussions at all. They just look for a good time at the movies, and if they got that they are happy.
     
  12. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2016
    THIS SO MUCH THIS!

    I get so sick of people treating there opinions as if they were fact, they are not they are opinions...Nothing more notihng less. It is probably one of the most annoying and frustrating part of any discussion on the internet.
     
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  13. Blame_It_On_Lucas

    Blame_It_On_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2004
    The PT was FAR divisive c'mon. The Disney films were coming along just fine for both the casual audience and most of the fanbase until TLJ. The PT on the other hand got savaged from the very start when TPM released.

    The difference is that social media has made the divisiveness louder during this era.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
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  14. Reepicheep775

    Reepicheep775 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2019
    I became a fan in 2005, shortly before RotS, and I didn't start using the internet regularly until a few years after that, so the PT backlash isn't something I experienced firsthand. For those who experienced it, was the PT division affected by current politics? That's one of the things that I find most bizarre about the ST division, being assigned a political opinion because I liked or disliked a Star Wars movie. I know some people thought that Lucas was commenting on things like 9/11, the Iraq War, and the Patriot Act in AotC (which doesn't make sense when you look at the filming schedule, but I digress...), but was that a thing that people were up in arms about like they are about perceived propaganda in the new movies?
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  15. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Im doing a research project on that currently for a class. I don't know how much controversy the perceived Bush jabs in ROTS created in comparison to what is being complained about today. One thing I did notice in those old 2005 threads is that its quite funny to see how politics and the accusations aren't really that different from 2019.
     
  16. Reepicheep775

    Reepicheep775 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 27, 2019
    I should give those a look!
     
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  17. rpeugh

    rpeugh Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2002
    PT division was not affected by politics at all. It really was about the movies and that is it. Lucas and Lucasfilm employees talked very little if anything about the current politics. When the media confronted Lucas about parallels to Iraq or Bush, he claimed it was more a parallel to Hitler and Caesar. Bush supporters never saw the PT as being anti Bush. If they did they didnt let it affect their enjoyment of Star Wars. Politics has affected ST division for a whole host of unfortunate reasons. For one, I do believe Disney has injected a social justice agenda in their movies (which Lucas never did), and the era of Trump has caused politics to become a form of mainstream entertainment along the lines of wrestling. It is no longer a wonky, nerdy niche hobby.
     
  18. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Back in 1990 I went to universty on a media and film degree I had massive arguments defending the OT to my peers. They probably liked them as kids which is kinda the point GL made. I always remember being upset when I heard my musical heroes The clash hating star wars when it came out. I love seeing the quality in stuff and hate snobbery
     
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  19. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    I think I have to say it is cos there not nearly as many YouTube channels during the PT era. I hate geeks and gamers and his ilk with a passion so visceral it almost hurts when I see it come up as a suggested video.
     
  20. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Correct. A perfect example of the difference between featuring politics and being political.

    YouTube channels are not an indication of divisiveness.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  21. Darth Raiden

    Darth Raiden Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Lol I just looked up the article. And the person who wrote it, also wrote how Terminator 2 ruined the franchise... I'll leave it there
     
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  22. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Yes they are in this day in age people see them as legit reviews..In a debate with one can be listed a whole lot of YouTube's channels giving negative reviews where I gave him a list of ten times more crying with joy
     
  23. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    So what?

    I don't understand your point. People give reviews in a variety of ways. The medium chosen for it, or the fact that it is positive or negative, in no way makes them illegitimate or an indication of an increase in divisiveness. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with increased divisiveness. What there is now is an increase in accessibility to make one's opinions and reviews known. And that's a good thing.
     
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