Mini Series Obi-Wan Kenobi - Part 3 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Obi Wan can believe that Luke is the one to defeat the Emperor and still be mentally broken and blaming himself for the end of the Jedi Order.

 

Obi-Wan's insistence on training Luke has nothing to do with Obi-Wan's lack of belief in the Jedi or the idea of "The Chosen One".

As I said, the beliefs/ideas Obi-Wan had about Anakin as The Chosen One were shattered by the events of Episode 3. Do you think Obi-Wan believe Luke is the Chosen One? Why would he?

I never said Obi-Wan was done with The Jedi. I said that he no longer believes in the concept/idea of The Chosen One prophecy. Obi-Wan thinks he failed Anakin, the Republic, The Jedi, the galaxy. He's shaken to his core and broken.

Attempting to reach out to Qui-Gon has nothing to do with Obi-Wan's disbelief/rejection of the idea of The Chosen One, nor his crisis of faith that comes with it.

 

Obi-Wan thinks Luke is the Chosen One in Rebels.

He's wrong of course, it was still Anakin, he fulfilled the prophecy at the end of ROTJ.

 

I feel like it could technically be either one or the other, if not both, depending on your point of view (no pun intended).

 

My point is he still believed in the Prophecy, he just shifted who he viewed as the Chosen One.

Well it was either the TFA or TLJ Visual Dictionary that said Anakin was still the Chosen One.

 

Maul: “Is he [Luke] the Chosen One?”

Obi-Wan: “He is.”

Yeah, I’d say he thinks Luke is the Chosen One.

 

I found this episode more to my liking.

 

We are talking about Obi-WAN’s state of mind/being in the current series, not in Rebels. No?

I mean, I could give you quotes from Luke Skywalker in TLJ to reflect on his mindset during the OT, but that doesn’t make sense. Does it?

 

100% agree. Vader has never killed innocents in any of the OT movies including Rogue One. It was a nice nuance to his character, that while he's an insanely formidable combatant, he has restraint. Like you mentioned, on Bespin he left Leia and Chewie in Lando's custody! The reason that restraint is so important is because of the depth it adds to his character. He's not a mad dog or a horror monster.

It's the same reason I always thought dark Anakin's killing of the Jedi Younglings was a terrible mistake. Everything else he did throughout all of the movies could be pretty easily rationalized from his POV as righteous. ...and a story of someone doing evil while thinking they are doing good is WAY more interesting than mustache twirling villainy.

 

Killing innocents is exactly the kind of thing a guy would do when he's spearheading a genocide.

 

My guess would be that he doesn't do it often. He was in a pissed off state and would do anything to get to Obi-Wan. Vader probably 100% blames Obi-Wan for the death of Padme and their unborn child and for putting him in a suit that keeps him alive. He wasn't about to let Obi-Wan get away... and it worked.

 

Also, in his own mind, it's justified, because the townspeople appear to be accomplices, hiding a Jedi from justice. Nonsense of course, but anything could be justified from his evil point of view. He was using them, who he viewed not as innocent, to draw out a fugitive.

 

The Tusken women and children might have something to say about that if they were still alive. He slaughtered innocents because they were related to the wrongdoers and he was angry, and that was well before his turn. He's full on dark side Sith now.

 

Vader's actions are to show just how ruthless he is.

Earlier in the film (which is really how OW is shot) when the Inquisitors are trying to find the Jedi - the former GI did a lot of talking and Reva threw the blade. That scene was to show she was pushing the limits. Vader showing up later with no limits to show how much a terror he is.

Great points made about the other killings Anakin/Vader had.

Vader is the ultimate villain in movie history. Needed to be done imo. Even though audience knows he'll turn back in the end - the characters can't believe it. No way Obi-Wan would believe there is still good in Vader after all the younglings and innocent beings he's killed.

 

The vengeance and rage he feels regarding Kenobi are unique. We have seen what Anakin is capable of when he’s been at his most angry before. And let’s not forget that he did literally torture Han Solo just to try and draw Luke out so while his methods evolved over time and his hunger for bloodlust perhaps subsided from its all time highs here as a younger man… he still tortured people to get what he wanted and was still excessively violent and abusive to his subordinates, regularly force choking them to their deaths in front of others.

I’ve never understood why so many Star Wars fans try to minimize the extent of Vader or his grandson Kylo Ren’s evils. These guys were both made to be capable of tremendous evils by design. Both men did unspeakably horrible things to others.

The Dark Side of the force for me is meant to act almost like an amplifier of evil. It starts slow tempting people through a fear or insecurity and once it gets its latches in and is listened to its a slippery slope from there. We see the effect it has on the body and mind. It physically changes users. It’s corrosive and addictive and drug-like for me. It reduces inhibitions allowing a person’s worst impulses and thoughts to manifest into actions without the same moral filter of someone who is able to withstand its formidable power.

I believe that at their most psychologically messed up and angry both Darth Vader and Kylo Ren were probably capable of becoming the equivalent of domestic terrorists even without the dark side power complication but adding that on top and having them both believe that the dark side of behaving without morality was actually the correct path to the most force power just increased those issues astronomically. They became completely misguided with mentors in their corners telling them this was the only way to fulfill their destinies.

The remarkable thing about the Skywalker clan at their worst is the sheer evil they’re capable of but what’s also remarkable about them at their most inspiring is that each shows an uncommon ability to pull themselves out of their own respective dark periods through reflection, through deciding to save what they love, and miraculously finding their way back. No matter how messed up they get, no matter how depressed or evil they become, they all showed an uncommon capability to self-reflect and change course and that’s their main gift to us as mythic creations. They remind us that it’s never too late to do better.

 

I, too, realized it’s never too late to be better and overcome my own dark side. It’s why I’m posting here and not in the place that used to trigger me and leave me in the place where even a loving man like George Lucas hates.

 

The resources available...

 

Am I the only one hating the fact that Obi shoots one of the stormtroopers at the checkpoint although the stormtrooper clearly has the high ground?

 

Kenobi knows that when facing an enemy who has claimed the high ground the element of surprise is crucial for victory. He deployed this tactic first versus Maul who had the high ground on him and when he saw Anakin attempt it on him (probably after he told him of what he did to Maul at some point in their relationship) he makes clear to him that there will be no surprise attack and that he is prepared to use the high ground fully to his advantage.


And later when Grevious had the high ground on him he also surprised him with a blaster.


This is also why Kenobi is such a master of the high ground himself most of the time. He is rarely caught off guard by surprise unless force lifted from the ground but he, himself, is always looking for surprise attack points when others have the high ground on him.



Only partially kidding about this all by the way. It sort of tracks.

 

Otherwise known as the bisectuals.

 

I’m really beginning to question the value of the weekly release structure when I see the sheer amount of negative reviews that are negative mostly because they assume Kenobi will remain a shell of who he was indefinitely, think the only Vader and Kenobi duel ever just happened, think the canon is being disrespected by killing the GI, and who are convinced this was all done to make Reva become the true hero of the show. There are some who even say stuff like “Hopefully now that they see how angry we are they can still fix the last 3 episodes” as though these all aren’t already pretty much complete.

To a lesser extent the sequels also suffered from endless speculation, theorization, and letdowns in part from expectations being subverted after having to wait years between offerings and imagining alternate story concepts many preferred to what they got. I realize movies take years to make so there’s going to be gaps but this is also what I had hoped they’d learned when they decided to go to TV more. I thought they’d recognized that on TV you can tell one large story seasonally in one go and benefit from the entire season being assessed.

In the era of the binge attention spans have probably never been lower. Star Wars fans have countless wannabe writers in their midst who all share their own takes on what could be better or what might happen next during the storytelling breaks and it all just ends up hurting the eventual story told up next in ways that a full binge would avoid.

Binge watching allows someone to assess the whole work. It reduces speculation time to occur only between seasons. It allows some people who didn’t love the start of something but who loved the end to say “Hang in there. It gets better” and I think Star Wars content needs that sometime due to how negative and pedantic aspects of the Star Wars hardcore audience can sometimes be.

 

Not killing Innocents is basically a mask to keep order. To give the false allusion the empire is a fair system. Same reason why the inquisitors kept telling Reva she was reckless. Because she often went straight to killing and maiming.

Vader doesn't really care about innocent people.

 

Per Vader's actions here in contrast to the OT I think it comes down to age. He had spent 10 years looking for Obi-Wan, that hate driving him obviously egged on by the Emperor. So of course when he finds him he may go to any means, even killing innocent civilians to do it.