Mini Series Official “The Acolyte” Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I don't care what the deconstructive "reality" of The Acolyte intended by its creator Leslie Headland is. I refuse to see it. Instead, I see the Truth of the show, as it really is:

-That Quimir is objectively evil.
-That the Jedi made mistakes but were good.
-That Yoda covered up the existence of the Sith.
-That Venestra Rhwo is corrupt.
-That Master Sol is good.
-That the witches were evil.
-And that Osha and Mae are conflicted characters.

Seeing it this way, the Acolyte can be seen as a basically good show.

The show is canonical as we see how Yoda found out about the Rule of Two eventually before Episode I, and how the Jedi started to be corrupted by the politics of the Senate.

 

I pretty much agree with your points except for this one:

We don't know yet what Vernestra says to Yoda. Some people are just assuming she's gonna come clean about the whole situation but for all we know she might just give him a line of BS. We'll just have to wait for S2, if we get it.

 

"Ah, hard to see the dark side is."

The exchange between Yoda and Mace Windu suggests to me they know something.

But Vernestra doesn't know Qimir is a Sith. She could still tell Yoda that her former apprentice is alive and turned to the dark side.

 

The whole the witches are evil thing is debatable in my opinion. What the witches are is confusing to say the least.

And as for Yoda being involved in a cover-up. No one says Venestra tells Yoda certain important information anyway.

Honestly I'm not expecting Yoda to have a big part in Series 2. I think he was teased because... fun cameo. But ultimately won't play much of a part at all. I think Headland has suggested she doesn't want to go to high up when it comes to characters being used.

 

We don't know if Vernestra even knew Qimir was a Sith. For all we know, she just thought he turned to the dark side and was on the loose. If that's what she thought, she wouldn't be able to tell Yoda that Qimir was a Sith so Yoda wouldn't be covering up anything.

I don't think the show tried to imply anything other than that, though. Qimir is evil. We see him being all seductive, calm and reasonable with Osha in Ep6 and then the scene immediately cuts to Jecki's corpse. A child he murdered quite nonchalantly.

 

Qimir is probably the best spokesperson the dark side has ever had.

 

Armsperson also
Bathingperson also
Don't forget
"Not only by speaking does the dark side corrupt jedis!"
I am a jedi full of light and yet
Qimir almost got me ehehe

 

I'm gonna rewatch this in a little while. Having digested it and than watching it again in just one or two sittings will be quite different, I believe.
I feel that the whole season should have been released at once. Or they should have made two movies out of it.

But I'm looking forward to my rewatch!

 

Michael Abels' score is on youtube. Beautiful stuff. You can hear the John Williams and Asian influence here.

 

I've been listening to it whilst writing these past couple weeks, and there are moments where I've tuned out, only to tune back in and be convinced that my media player has tripped over into a classic Star Wars soundtrack, or Ghost of Tsushima, or The Matrix. But again, those are only moments, peppered throughout all the greatness Michael Abels has forged from those influences. It's a really superb score, and one that I think shines a little brighter separate from its show (which isn't a criticism of The Acolyte in the slightest; quite the opposite, in fact).

 

It's odd, but not surprising, that people get so tweaked by deconstruction. It reminds me of how the Right turned Critical Race Theory into a boogyman, and they've done something similar with deconstruction.

Simply put, deconstruction "deconstructs" binary oppositions, showing how the two supposed complete opposites overlap and share qualities. For example, showing how men and women are not 100% opposites is deconstruction.

Clearly, The Acolyte really does deconstruct "good/evil" and "light/dark," showing how characters like Qimir and Sol are not truly 100% light or dark, and I think this created two of the most interesting new characters in SW.

Of course, George Lucas already gave us the most famous and popular deconstructed character in the mythos in Anakin Skywalker, who is a mix of light and dark.

So why is deconstruction in The Acolyte so controversial? Because the showrunner is a non-binary woman, and because the Right has turned narrative complexity into a sin (literally).

People are such ideologues about this now they will even boast that they will not admit the reality of the characters presented to them -- which ironically shows us how important deconstruction is. People desire a simple false consciousness that distorts reality, and deconstruction is an important tool for seeing things as they really are.

 

Qimir is a manipulative mass-murderer. How does "The Acolyte" clearly deconstruct him and show that he is not 100% evil? What redeeming qualities does he possess?

 

Qimir is a loving, caring, honest, understanding and responsible mass murderer.

 

There aren't news for Acolyte season 2 in the panel with Manny Jacinto:

https://x.com/empiremagazine/status/1822415045537702281

 

https://x.com/empiremagazine/status/1822413557893632362

 

It's crazy how many types of designs they went through before landing on the final version of Qimir's helmet. Scariest design since... Maul?

 

I think it has more to do that deconstruction of the Jedi is what the creators seem to want to do but it’s not what the fans want anymore. George have us a Jedi order in the decline in the prequels. Luke didn’t restart the order in the sequels. I am just so over deconstruction, corruption of the Jedi how about they do something new for TV and films and give us a live action story showing the Jedi at their prime doing good things.

 

Understandable, but on the other hand, "heroes who succeed with everything they do" is not exactly a riveting story people would care about either. You need conflict and you need capable villains, else you don't have much of a story to tell. Hundreds of years ran smoothly, and that is not something you can really show in a movie or show, because there isn't anything to show. Just like the superhero movies do not show them live their life and catch the odd small thief that ran their way. History is full of stories were something happened, not full of stories were little happened.

One way to get around that is a detective story, either in a movie or in a show with different cases each episode. In those you can have the hero succeed without a bigger issue with the system. Maybe ask Rian Johnson to do it, that genre seems to be his forte

 

Not wanting more deconstruction of the Jedi stories is not the same thing as "showing the Jedi as being perfect/always winning". One could create a story of the Jedi suffering through hard times or failing a mission while still being a noble force of good and no deconstructing their nature. The Old Republic eras are prefect for that.

For the High Republic era imagine a story in which the Jedi are working on bringing peace to a planet on the brink of civil war. They fail in making peace, even though they tried their best, and war falls upon the planet.

Anyways instead of another "Teh Jedi are Flawed !!!!!" story, the Acolyte series should have been focused on the Sith duo of the period. Their is a lot you can do with a show just on the sith perspective.

 

The Acolyte is hardly a story of deconstructing the Jedi. It is, by all accounts constructed like a Greek tragedy, where things go haywire because everyone ends up making some flawed decisions.

The Old Republic - so far - has been a prime example for the Jedi failing, so I'm not sure why you picked that era. Doesn't matter if you choose Tales of the Jedi, KOTOR or The Old Republic, in all cases did the Jedi look bad before they eventually succeeded somewhat.

Beyond that, the prequels were a story of the Jedi being a noble force for good, and while flaws were being pointed out, so was the ST. In fact, contrary to what some people loved to claim, the ST very much went for "the Jedi are a force for good, and you should use any failures as lessons for a better future, not as means to destroy everything you had". The end to that storyline is very much what you describe as what they should do, yet somehow I doubt you would use it as an example of things done right.

 

The show should have focused on the villains for sure and having a show about the Jedi in their prime doesn’t mean heroes succeeding at everything there are plenty of avenues for conflict failure and interesting story telling.

While the prequels did show the Jedi as a force for food they were definitely flawed and didn’t see the danger right in front of them and let the Republic fall into a civil war.

Having the Jedi in this show being the first shown to many in this new era and being possibly the worst and most flawed Jedi we have ever seen on screen is not a great way to engage a lot of casuals and new fans when what many have been asking for since 2015 is to see something that we haven’t arguably seen before on screen especially in terms of the Jedi.

Comic books went through this whole deconstruction and anti hero phase in the 90s and while it worked for awhile it got old quick and really hurt the industry. Star Wars needs to do something that excites everyone again and going back to the telling great stories about good versus evil is one thing they can do. Or we can continue downs whatever this unstable road is that we have been on since the ST and the franchise will continue to struggle.

 

Fans need to understand that Lucasfilm doesn't just make the shows and movies for them, but also for regular viewers who don't really keep up with the complicated history of Star Wars, which has been told in a non-linear fashion since 1977. The decline the Jedi is something that went over a lot of people's heads who watched the prequels, which is because those movies were rather vague about it. Lucas only really talked it about interviews, at least to my knowledge.

I have a feeling that Lucasfilm's overall plan for the Jedi right now is explaining where they went wrong, and then show us their humble beginnings with Dawn of the Jedi, which will be complemented by The New Jedi Order with Rey bringing back the Jedi to what they were initially all about - a noble force of good.

Starting a show off from the Sith's POV right away is problematic in terms of storytelling. Star Was fans are well versed on the Sith and they would eat it up, but the regular joe would just be lost. We need a main character, a seemingly good rand relatable person, who makes a transition from the light to the dark. Audiences are already on the side of the Jedi - not the Sith - and so the main character needs a good reason to abandon them.

But The Acolyte is totally from a Sith's POV - deceptively so. I mean, we witness countless Jedi die through out and it ends with the Sith walking away with a new member. It doesn't get any more Sith than that... except possibly a Season 2 which would likely dwell further into the inner workings of the Sith.

 

The franchise has been bleeding regular and casual viewers since the the sequel trilogy across all media. They got a nice boost with the Mandalorian but we are back to bleeding viewers again. It’s not about how Lucasfilm had been telling the story or wants to tell the story. They need to figure out a way to tell the story going forward that engages all aspects of the fan base.

Right now let’s see if the Rey movie happens as it still hasn’t started shooting and we have no timeline for Dawn of the Jedi. The studio does not have to the best track record with a lot of in development projects.

When it comes to a SITH POV it’s not going to be jarring if setup properly. If this show was about Qimir and him becoming the acolyte after falling out with Vernestra and Sol investigating years later it wouldn’t be jarring to see it from Qimir’s POV. The execution of the fall in this series was so messy and haphazard because of the focus on the mystery and showing the Jedi as flawed for whatever reasons the creators wanted. Could have cut most of that and tightened up the story a lot to focus on ‘The Acolyte’ and not jump all over the place with not nearly enough time per episode to execute all of the concepts they wanted to.