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Rogue One [Official Info] Ben Mendelsohn (Director Orson Krennic) in Rogue One

Discussion in 'Anthology' started by starocean90, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. Blue 5

    Blue 5 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Poor Krennic. He had such high aspirations, but he choked on them.
     
  2. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
  3. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Loved his portrayal!
     
  4. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    I liked Krennic. I feel like Ben Mendohlson did a great job with what he had. He really seemed to be invested in the character and really gave the character an energy that I feel a lot of others lacked.

    I do think his history with Jyn's parents and murdering her mother in front of her never really played out and I wish Felicity and Ben had more screen time together, because that just felt like a plot point that needed more done with it beyond "who are you?"

    But that's not Ben's fault, and I think he made the character very entertaining despite any shortcomings in the character's usage, imo.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
     
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  5. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Krennic imo is one of the best villains in Star Wars!
     
  6. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
    [​IMG]

    That Krennic swagger!:cool:
     
  7. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Agreed. Unfortunately he had to play third fiddle to Vader & Tarkin. No way around that. Given that limitation I thought he was a great character. Expertly portrayed too.
     
    Avnar likes this.
  8. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Personally I think the film was better off avoiding being a revenge fantasy, you go that route and either you end up with very simplistic cinema with good person killing bad person or you have the hero doing the revenging become very morally questionable which to me isn't really in the spirit of SW, the OT always focusing on ennoblement and Rogue One obviously is as well.

    As I said elsewhere I think Krennic really works more as a mirror for Jyn and the Rebels, as we see her and those around her ennobled we see him slip further and further into vain selfishness.

    If you had an alternative ending to both of them looking down there deaths from the DS (with her obviously a lot more fulfilled than him) I'd say it wouldn't be her killing him but rather him killing her as she send the plans and a similar exchange as she'd dying before he gets blasted by the DS, that's probably too dark for Disney though I spose.
     
  9. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    I think Jyn's flashback scene before she wakes up en route to Jedha was a wasted opportunity to reiterate the fact that Krennic literally gunned down her mother in front of her eyes. I liked the part of the flashback showing the Erso family interacting with Krennic on Coruscant and giving us a glimpse of the history there.

    But then it goes right into the scene where Saw comes to get Jyn that we had just watched a few minutes prior. It literally even shows Saw peering into the hideout again, and I laugh every time because it's so unnecessary to have shown that twice. I'm not saying the moments before she is rescued is unnecessary to show twice, but seeing Saw like that again is.

    Anyways, being that that was Jyn's only flashback scene of the movie, I thought they could have added another short sequence in there of Jyn remembering her mother being gunned down, thus strengthening her resolve in carrying out the mission she was tasked with, as well as reiterating to the audience what her motivations are.

    Either that, or do another flashback at some point in the movie which shows this. That could have taken care of it without any drawn out confrontation between Jyn and Krennic, and their eventual meeting could have been left as it is.

    I've just always found the whole Lyra episode, after being such a major focus in the introduction, was really brushed under the rug afterwards and left unresolved throughout the movie. The entire focus of the movie was on Jyn reconnecting with her father, and not a single mention is made of Jyn's mother being gunned down by Krennic after it happens. For someone like Jyn, or anybody for that matter, you would think something like that would hold a more prominent place in their memory. Which I'm sure it did, I just think they could have placed another mention of it somewhere else in the movie. And again, it doesn't have to lead to some major confrontation about it between Jyn and Krennic. Rather, their meeting could be left as it is, and it would simply have been implied and reiterated that this is yet another layer in their fight against one another. But the fact that it goes completely unmentioned after it happens really makes it seem unresolved to me, regardless of the fact that Jyn did come out victorious against Krennic in the end.
     
  10. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    I wouldn't have minded a few direct references to Lyra bar the scene with Krennic but really I think it does pretty obviously link into Jyn's character, she's seen what her mother got for being a selfless moralist and views it as having achieved nothing and it obviously effects her own attitude to the world when we first meet her.

    The flashback being mostly focused on Galen makes sense surely given finding her father is part of the mission, Krennic hasn't been mentioned at all and I think he works nicely as a kind of threatening but reasonably human presence in the background.
     
  11. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    A lot of how we perceive Jyn in this regard is assumed, and rightfully so. But still, the fact that it gets no mention whatsoever and there are no other allusions to it at all throughout the movie, other than the brief mention by Galen during his hologram speech of losing her, just doesn't quite sit right with me. Especially given the heavy drama involved in Jyn trying to reconnect with her father throughout the movie. I'm not discounting that or saying it's over the top in any way, just that in comparison to the amount of focus placed on it, in that context it does kind of brush the murder of her mother aside a bit. I just think it's something that should have been more overt, which could easily have been accomplished by one line mentioning the fact that Jyn is also seeking justice, vengeance even, for witnessing the murder of her mother.

    Or rather than a line of dialogue, wouldn't it have been that much more impactful if, in the same flashback, we go from seeing Krennic being a welcomed guest in the Erso home to being the same man who would eventually gun down Lyra? Just add in a quick six second flash going from the Erso home, to the field in which Jyn witnesses her mother's murder by this man, maybe it would just show Krennic drawing his gun and not him actually taking the shot, since we already saw that, or something to that effect, but clearly from the perspective of Jyn. And then to Jyn being rescued. We could have gotten the same feel for Galen from the flashback, it wouldn't have taken away from that. But now we would also have that reiteration for Jyn's motivations on the part of her mother, and it wouldn't have to be mentioned again after that.

    Lyra obviously loved Jyn very much, and I think we can assume they had a close mother/daughter relationship. So again, I just think Lyra's murder should have had at least one overt mention or allusion to it at some point throughout the rest of the movie, and that it could have been accomplished rather simply. That way when Jyn and Krennic do meet there's an even bigger sense of victory for Jyn.

    But honestly, I blame the reshoots. My gut feeling, being that it was such a huge point of focus in the introduction, is that Lyra's murder did play a bigger part for Jyn throughout the movie, but for whatever reason, it was cut out as being any major plot point. Maybe Disney didn't want a whole movie where it's heroine is constantly reminded of the murder of her mother, or one in which the audience was reminded of it.
     
  12. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2016
    It's shown there because they're going to meet Saw on Jedha...It wasn't necessary, but it makes far more sense to show Saw than to repeat the scene of Krennic gunning down her mother because that was a long and very memorable sequence. Saw opening the hatch was quick, and audiences may not have realized that he's the same person they're going to meet.

    It's also a smart visual thing. Jyn is asleep in darkness, the hatch opens, and she wakes up. Great films operate on more than just a straight, script-driven narrative level. When visual cues converge with script cues, you have good cinema.

    For me, everything you suggest adding to those scenes would have made the film more pedestrian, more conventional, and more sign-posty. The lack of "overtness" that you desire is, for many, a major plus of the film. It feels much more natural than most blockbusters. Like the director is observing these characters rather than dominating them and forcing them into neat narrative boxes.
     
  13. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    He made two appearances during the introduction sequence, in the video message with Lyra, and then seeing him opening the hatch to rescue Jyn. Bodhi hysterically laments he needs to speak to Saw Gerrera. There was the full blown discussion about Saw in the Rebel headquarters. And then there was the big Saw reveal scene of him yelling "LIES! DECEPTIONS!" and meeting Bodhi for the first time. This was all before Jyn's flashback. So I don't think seeing him for that brief glimpse during the flashback provides any more understanding for who he is than if it wasn't there.

    To me it's just funny that twice we see him peer over into the hatch with his big bald head as this little girl is looking up at him.

    As far as my suggestion of showing Krennic in the flashback, it was just a suggestion that was more to reiterate Jyn's outlook as a whole, not specifically what they are about to do immediately on Jedha. And it wouldn't have just been a repeat of the scene, maybe a view from Jyn's angle, for example, of Krennic drawing his gun, with some dialogue over it, where what happens after that moment is implied, being as how we already saw that take place in the beginning.

    When I say overt, I mean that in comparison to what is there, which is absolutely nothing. So it's not like it needs to be that overt in the sense of reinforcing it over and over again. Like I said, just one mention or allusion to it is all it would have needed. It's the total lack of that whatsoever that doesn't sit right with me.

    And really, if we are observing these characters naturally, I think the murder of one's mother before one's own eyes as a child ought to play on his or her mind a little more, especially in the context we see Jyn in RO. If anything, the suppression of that and lack of acknowledging it makes it seem less natural, as if the director is intentionally trying to minimize it, which I feel like he was.
     
  14. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    In that flashback though were still seeing Saw an unknown just opening a portal rather than being asked to care about him, the cut from the opening to Jyn in prison suggests this wasn't the heroic story you might expect but his and Jyn's story is obviously something were heading towards traveling to Jedha. Very good editing in that scene as monk says linking in Saw when Jyn is put down by Lyra and then again before she wakes up.

    You do obviously see Lyra featured prominently in the flashback as well as Galen and the link between her experiences and her current state as a detached cynic is surely self evident? for that role to be realistic she obviously needs to be guarded, such people don't give out the reasons for there nature to strangers easily and its only when she meets Saw who she knows better that she makes reference to Lyra's death, perhaps not by name but "all its brought me is pain" make it pretty obvious that's a large part of it.

    By the time you get to latter in the film with the character evolving behind that initial state we firstly have much more direct experience to Galen that makes a lot more sense to be mentioned in scenes between her and Cassian and then have her taking on a leadership role, if your looking to inspire people to walk into likely death then you don't really want to be loading your own problems on them. When she meets Krennic at the end of course she does mention Lyra.
     
  15. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    moreorless12: What you seem to be implying is that those things you mentioned would not be the case if there had been a more overt reference to Lyra's murder. But all that could still be said if there was.

    Again, the flashback and the inclusion of Lyra's murder was only one suggestion on how they could have possibly brought that back in to the equation in a more overt way. I'm not suggesting that to be the only time they could have done it. There are other ways in which it could have been brought up without disrupting the narrative we were given in any way.
     
  16. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Again though I do see those things as potentially mutually exclusive, your setting up the character as emotionally guarded and mistrustful so making reference to something she would obviously have to react strongly to seems questionable. With Galen I think its easier because her relationship to him is one of semi rejection so obviously not as extreme as it would be if someone say said "they killed your mother, don't you want to do something about that?".

    Dramatically as well I think the film works by slowly upping things as it progresses after the opening. The flashback we get on the way to Jedha is I think more subtle in keeping with that and also has a clear ambiguity to it showing the potential for both positive and negative events in the future, her parents show at a less traumatic period but with the potents of Krennic's presence, Galens uniform and Lyra's distant look.
     
  17. Gobi-1

    Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2002
  18. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
    LOLOL
     
  19. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Needs to be plural! Aspirations. Don't choke on them.

    :)
     
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  20. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    Watching the film again right now and I really enjoyed his character. He convinced as someone who was trying to weasel his way to the top and was ruthless too.

    On a side note I noticed they left in a little blooper as he stumbles up the stairs on Scarif as the rebel fleet arrives.
     
  21. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Or it's not a blooper, and Krennic just stumbled. Indeed, he sort of stumbles for much of the film! :)
     
  22. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    I am really curious about that cut scene where his cape is dragging through the water on Scarif... Hope we get to see it one day!
     
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  23. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
    We will! The Complete Complete Saga with all 9 SW movies + Anthology films!! :p


    But yeah, I'd love to see that scene/clip too..
     
  24. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 20, 2015
    For years the legend will build about the uncut, unedited, original version of RO. The "I Rebel" version. Maybe on its 20th anniversary will it be released officially. Maybe...
     
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  25. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    I wonder how Krennic located the Erso's on Lah'mu..? Was that covered anywhere [face_thinking]
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
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