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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Official: The Star Wars DVD FAQ and Discussion thread

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Commander Antilles, Mar 8, 2002.

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  1. plutoneam

    plutoneam Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2003
    ^^^To the person that asked, I bought the 1995 'Faces' version. Not the Definitive Collection. Same transfer, minus the special features. It was a lot cheaper, and I never would have really watched all those special features anyway.

    And I did say a tragedy OF CINEMA! Let's read the entire post before backlashing on it.

    BTW, who cares that the twin towers were destroyed? You still have the memories, right?
     
  2. DarthToeJam

    DarthToeJam Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Um, the 9/11 references aren't helping anyone's arguments. Let's all stear clear of them, kay?
     
  3. Eugene_Meltsner_AIO

    Eugene_Meltsner_AIO Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2002
    The O-OT may be available now on VCD or laserdiscs, but what about 20-30 years from now? (A lot changes in that time) The prices of these things might go up, and for someone who wants to just sit down and enjoy the O-OT, I'd rather have them enjoy it in the best format possible and not have to pay so much for inferior formats.

    Not only that, but unless I'm mistaken and someone is out there making new laserdisc players, sooner or later, there will be no more players in circulation, meaning sooner or later, unless the O-OT DVDs are made, people will have to play their VHS copies until they wear out and they are forced to deal with these SSE DVDs coming out.
     
  4. zuckuss1138

    zuckuss1138 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2001
    i went to a comic show yesterday and saw the ot on dvd. it was the special edition i believe, but the guy said he copied it from laserdisc to dvd, so that could be done to the non special ed if lucas never releases it, that would solve the problem of no laserplayers in circulation
     
  5. DarthToeJam

    DarthToeJam Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2002
    The O-OT may be available now on VCD or laserdiscs, but what about 20-30 years from now?

    Well, in 20 years, people will be looking back nostalgically at DVD and wondering why people were getting so worked up about such an inferior format. HD-DVD launches in less than two years. In all likehood THAT will be the predominent format in 20 years.

    I think the real concern is not 20 years from now, but now. As in "I want it NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!"

    I can't believe some people "call themselves Star Wars fans" and are so complacent at every decision of Lucas.

    Complaceny implies that we somehow have a say in Lucas' decsions and if we just make our voices heard we will get what we want. Stop fooling yourself. We don't have a say. We never have. This is Lucas' product. He's made it clear over and over again he'll follow his own path, no one can choose it for him. Lucas may change his mind, but only if its in his best interest. In this case, you can bet that a team of market research people have examined this issue and determined that not releasing the O-OT on the DVD set will have little impact on overall sales. That is the bottom line for Lucas. Online petitions, forum talk and media bitching means nothing. He looks at the democracy of numbers -- and those show that O-OT or no O-OT, the DVD will likely be the biggest seller in the history of the format. Period. So petition and boycott. Try to convince a few million people to join you. Then you might have an impact. But don't for a second think that Lucas hasn't had people crunch the numbers on this. Somewhere at Lucasfilm you can bet there's a marketing report on the potential impact of a boycott on DVD sales. If they really thought it would make a significant impact, you'd be seeing the O-OT being released. Obviously, their research shows it isn't a big deal for the overwhelming majority of consumers.

    Also keep in mind that Lucas DOES respect his fans, but he has little patience for the on-line community. The problem with the OriginalTrilogy.com petition is that its TOO easy. On line petitions are like the racks at the checkout stand - they're based on impulse and convenience. Lucas isn't going to pay attention to that. If you want to get his attention, send a real letter to Lucasfilm. Sit down, write it in your own handwriting, put it in an envelope and take it to the post office. Be respectful and clear. Businesses are more likely to take you serious if you go to that sort of effort. If you DON'T want to go to that bother, then maybe you should reconsider how devoted you REALLY are to this noble cause. You want Lucas to go the extra mile, you SHOW him how devoted you are to your beliefs. Bitchin' about it online ain't gonna cut it.
     
  6. plutoneam

    plutoneam Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Bitchin' about it online ain't gonna cut it.


    Then don't.

    I'm not 'bitchin' about anything. I am simply choosing to not buy the DVDs, and you are going to have to tolerate THAT.
     
  7. womberty

    womberty Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2002
    I also want to add that I am a supporter of using CGI in the OT lightsaber fights. Yes I am talking about using a digital double for Obi-Wan and Vader while replacing Sir Alec's head.

    I also believe that all 6 movies should flow smoothly, so future generations wont get confused.


    Why not just re-shoot (after re-writing) the OT with Ewan McGregor and anyone else who is supposed to survive from the PT? Plus, all the effects will be state-of-the-art, so they won't look as dated.

    Of course, once those are finished, the PT will probably look a little dated, having used earlier technology (especially in Ep.1). So, you'll have to re-shoot (after another re-write, of course) the PT. And on and on it will go in an endless cycle of re-doing the films to try to achieve Lucas' "original vision."

    On the bright side, by the time that's done, you may have 10 different copies of each film in your video library!


    i went to a comic show yesterday and saw the ot on dvd. it was the special edition i believe, but the guy said he copied it from laserdisc to dvd, so that could be done to the non special ed if lucas never releases it, that would solve the problem of no laserplayers in circulation

    Yes, it is possible to copy laserdiscs to DVD, if you have the right equipment. That means a working laserdisc player, and either a DVD recorder or a video card, DVD burner, and DVD authoring software on your computer.

    And it would be illegal to just buy a DVD copy off someone else. You're only allowed to have a DVD "backup" copy of something you already own (see this thread for some discussion of the legality of DVD copies).

    So, the problem is both available equipment (laserdisc players becoming rare, plus expensive DVD recording equipment and/or software) and available original media. You'd have to be making the copies from VHS or laserdisc copies that you own - and as of now, I think the only place to get those is eBay.

    Getting a legal DVD copy of the O-OT requires substantial effort and expense. (Now, why on earth would I be upset that Lucas isn't making a copy I can get for around $50?)


    I think the real concern is not 20 years from now, but now. As in "I want it NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!"

    You really think that?

    I bought the VHS set back in the 90's, not to watch it "NOW! NOW! NOW!", but to know that I would have a permanent copy. Unfortunately, this was before I realized the necessity of widescreen. ;)

    The concern is part now, part 20 years from now. I have a copy I can watch now, but I am concerned about losing that over the course of time.


    Sit down, write it in your own handwriting, put it in an envelope and take it to the post office. Be respectful and clear. Businesses are more likely to take you serious if you go to that sort of effort. If you DON'T want to go to that bother, then maybe you should reconsider how devoted you REALLY are to this noble cause. You want Lucas to go the extra mile, you SHOW him how devoted you are to your beliefs.

    Perhaps I should send him a letter chronicling all the steps I have to take in order to get a legal DVD copy of the original films.

    Star Wars Trilogy on laserdisc: $xxx on eBay.
    Used laserdisc player: $xxx
    DVD recorder: $xxx

    DVD copy of the original (pre-Special Edition) Star Wars trilogy: priceless ;)
     
  8. DarthToeJam

    DarthToeJam Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Plutoneam, you missed the point. What you do or don't do doesn't make a difference to me.

    It also won't make a difference to Lucas UNLESS you are willing to go the extra mile to show your displeasure beyond complaining online.

    Have you written a real letter to Lucasfilm? Is it worth your time to do so? If not, perhaps you're not as devoted to this cause as you say.
     
  9. DarthToeJam

    DarthToeJam Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Perhaps I should send him a letter chronicling all the steps I have to take in order to get a legal DVD copy of the original films.

    Star Wars Trilogy on laserdisc: $xxx on eBay.
    Used laserdisc player: $xxx
    DVD recorder: $xxx


    That's not a bad idea. Seriously.
     
  10. DARTH_CHINA

    DARTH_CHINA Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2001
    If you want to have an idea of how the redo of the ESB Palpatine scene with Ian McDiarmid could look like, take a look at the new JC Banner!

    Now, THAT would be awesome! [face_love]
     
  11. appleseed

    appleseed Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Well, that may happen down the road, but probably not this year. There has been quite a bit of talk about Archivial Editions, but until it's official, I won't believe it. That's part of why no O-OT on DVD is no shock to me. It's been official that there would be no more releases of the O-OT for almost 10 years now.
     
  12. womberty

    womberty Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2002
    That's not a bad idea. Seriously.

    Where do I get George's address? :p
     
  13. Errant_Venture

    Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Personally I think the only reason why LFL won't release the O-OT is because they think that it won't make them any money.

    With that said, I don't see the relevance for 9/11 discussion and I also don't see the relevance in calling fans not devoted enough. We all spend money our own way and if people want to have the chance to buy the O-OT on dvd, then they should be permitted to. However, it probably won't happen due to profit reasons. Also, if one wants to stick to the laser disks, they are entitled to do so. At the very least they have the O-OT on some kind of non-VHS device AND they save money which would otherwise be spent on the SE dvd.
     
  14. jedi_master_ousley

    jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2002
    We're all fans here. No one is more or less of a fan because they like a different version of the Original Trilogy.

    That said, it doesn't really matter to me which version(s) they release. If they only ever release the special editions, I'll buy it. If they release the non-Special editions at some point, I'll buy those too.
     
  15. womberty

    womberty Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Also, if one wants to stick to the laser disks, they are entitled to do so. At the very least they have the O-OT on some kind of non-VHS device AND they save money which would otherwise be spent on the SE dvd.

    That only works for people who were using laserdiscs in the mid-90's and managed to pick up a copy of the trilogy in that format.

    For the rest of us, getting laserdisc copies (and/or making DVD copies of what we have) will not be saving us any money; it will certainly cost more than a trilogy boxed set.
     
  16. JohnWilliams00

    JohnWilliams00 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Complaceny implies that we somehow have a say in Lucas' decsions and if we just make our voices heard we will get what we want. Stop fooling yourself. We don't have a say. We never have. This is Lucas' product. He's made it clear over and over again he'll follow his own path, no one can choose it for him. Lucas may change his mind, but only if its in his best interest. In this case, you can bet that a team of market research people have examined this issue and determined that not releasing the O-OT on the DVD set will have little impact on overall sales.
    That is the bottom line for Lucas.


    Then how do you explain Lucasfilm's acknowledgement of the petition for bringing out the PT DVDs earlier than expected? Furthermore, Lucasfilm knows very well the demand for Star Wars and other popular trilogies through the internet. And I believe Lucasfilm issued a statement saying they are watching the growing petition for the O-OT closely. So no, you are wrong when you say the people have no say. I am not saying a petition is a sure-fire way (who does?), nor am I saying Lucas is guaranteed to release it because of the petition. I never said any of these things, so please stop projecting these rather redundant staements on people. But when you say that the collective voice of thousands of fans on the internet have absolutely "zero" value, I must correct you there, as the history regarding Lucasfilm and fans have shown. And finally, with so much hoopla about the laudable artistic integrity of Lucas, I find it hypocritical when many became so defensive when Lucas was criticized of being financially motivated in his decisions, but are now trying to tell us that money is a factor all along. HELLO, he is an artist AND a business man. Of course he thinks about money! Why are you telling us this? It's funny to first hear people say "money is never involved in these decisions, only art", and now it is "he has decided it is not profitable and there is not enough money to be motivated." I've been saying all along he has $$$ on the mind (and I don't always blame him for it, seeing as he is a filmmaker who wants success), but I'm glad to see how some of you have recanted your statements and have now decided to march to the beat of our parade. Thank you for finally seeing the light.

    Online petitions, forum talk and media bitching means nothing. He looks at the democracy of numbers -- and those show that O-OT or no O-OT, the DVD will likely be the biggest seller in the history of the format. Period. So petition and boycott. Try to convince a few million people to join you. Then you might have an impact. But don't for a second think that Lucas hasn't had people crunch the numbers on this. Somewhere at Lucasfilm you can bet there's a marketing report on the potential impact of a boycott on DVD sales. If they really thought it would make a significant impact, you'd be seeing the O-OT being released. Obviously, their research shows it isn't a big deal for the overwhelming majority of consumers.

    I know Lucas has had people crunch the numbers from Day One. What I don't understand is, first, you said in your opening paragraph that we were wasting our time, and then in the second paragraph you're basically telling us to actively protest through letters, boycotts, and petitions. I find both of your paragraphs a huge contradiction and really without anything new. You say to petition and write letters (we know that) and then you say that we can't be 100% sure of its outcome. (we know that).
     
  17. DarthToeJam

    DarthToeJam Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Then how do you explain Lucasfilm's acknowledgement of the petition for bringing out the PT DVDs earlier than expected?

    Did they really acknowledge that? The only statement I can find is:  "We know how long fans have waited for this release and how much they have been looking forward to it, so everyone has been working overtime to make sure that the Star Wars Trilogy on DVD is an awesome experience," said Jim Ward, Vice President of Marketing and Distribution for Lucasfilm Ltd. That is a far cry from saying they caved to presure from an online petition.

    Furthermore, Lucasfilm knows very well the demand for Star Wars and other popular trilogies through the internet.

    Yes, but internet users are not the only demographic they look at. They only need to look at box office receipts to know the movies are popular.

    And I believe Lucasfilm issued a statement saying they are watching the growing petition for the O-OT closely.

    On April 5th, Steve Sandsweet said he was "I'm aware of those petitions." Link. I can't find a quote from Lucasfilm that they are "closely watching" them. Can you find a link?

    So no, you are wrong when you say the people have no say.

    I've said from the beginning the only say you or I have is at the box office or the checkout counter. You can buy Lucas' products or not. There's your choice.

    But when you say that the collective voice of thousands of fans on the internet have absolutely "zero" value, I must correct you there.

    I never said "zero" value. I said Lucas most likely wouldn't listen. If signing an on-line petition makes you feel good that you are making a stand and sticking it to the man -- well, I guess that has value. I certainly hope it makes you feel good (and I don't mean that sarcastically).

    It's funny to first hear people say "money is never involved in these decisions, only art", and now it is "he has decided it is not profitable and there is not enough money to be motivated."

    In the face of an unlikely financial incentive, Lucas can afford to make an artistic choice. What's hard to understand about that? Lucas IS both an artist AND a businessman. And in THIS case in HIS mind, the needs of Lucas the artist are more powerful than Lucas the businessman. If Lucas had data showing a significant decline in sales that would effect the overall profitablity of his organization, he would rethink his decision. But look at the evidence. People complained about Ewoks and then spent the next 15 years buying a billion dollars worth of Star Wars related products. People complained about Jar Jar yet TPM made nearly a billion dollars at the worldwide box office. People complained about AOTC, yet it ALSO made well over half a billion dollars at the box office. Conservative estimates show this DVD release to be one of the biggest if not THE biggest in history. So why would Lucas be worried about the money or loss of it. He can afford to make an artisitc decision. He KNOWS he could make MORE money by releasing the O-OT, but not so much that he needs to compromise what he artistically wants to do.

    What I don't understand is, first, you said in your opening paragraph that we were wasting our time, and then in the second paragraph you're basically telling us to actively protest through letters, boycotts, and petitions. I find both of your paragraphs a huge contradiction and really without anything new. You say to petition and write letters (we know that) and then you say that we can't be 100% sure of its outcome. (we know that).

    There is no contradiction. If you want to protest, protest. If you want to complain, complain. My opinion, however, is that it will fall on deaf ears ESPECIALLY if you do it in an online forum or an online petition.

    Listen closely, John, I WANT the O-OT on DVD. I really do. I'm not your adversary here. But if you want something, be SMART about how you go about making your voice heard. Lucas ha
     
  18. zeaband

    zeaband Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2003
    Man would you guys stop with such long posts, its really getting annoying
     
  19. DrEvazan

    DrEvazan Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2002
    perhaps a public boycott at theaters showing episode III would do the trick... thats my group's plan!
     
  20. The_SAGA

    The_SAGA Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Womberty why would that be such a bad idea about the lightsaber fights. Its not like I said to completely remake the original movies, but why not make them the best they can be..."movies aren't made, they are abandoned" GL
    Notice how I said that I think that the O-OT should also be on the archival DVD that will come out in a couple years. That way anyone will be able to see how far these movies have come.

    Just give me 1 reason why updated and enhanced lightsaber fights would detract from the movies. There could be the same dialouge and some better music.
    Like I said I dont wanna NOT hav the OOT on DVD, but the more improvements, the better.
    Its not like they would change the story or anything
     
  21. womberty

    womberty Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Just give me 1 reason why updated and enhanced lightsaber fights would detract from the movies. There could be the same dialouge and some better music.

    You know, you almost had me convinced - until you said "better music."

    You see? It won't just stop at touching up a couple of technical flaws that could have been corrected in '77.

    Why do you need better music? What's "better" than Williams' original score?

    I'd rather they left the films alone. Each time you tweak it, it's like adding a little extra salt to a dish - sooner or later, it'll be too much, and you can't easily take it back.
     
  22. Otis_Frampton

    Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Um, the 9/11 references aren't helping anyone's arguments.

    Neither does resorting to hyperbole by referring to Lucas' decision as a "tragedy" (be it one of cinema or anything else, thank you very much).

    As appleseed noted, just trying to put things in perspective.

    -Otis
     
  23. DarthToeJam

    DarthToeJam Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Man would you guys stop with such long posts, its really getting annoying

    Feel free to skip any post I make.

    Neither does resorting to hyperbole by referring to Lucas' decision as a "tragedy"

    I see your point, Otis, but I think more restraint could be shown on both sides - sometimes even on my own. ;-)
     
  24. The_SAGA

    The_SAGA Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2004
    "Why do you need better music? What's "better" than Williams' original score?"

    Sorry dont know how to quote yet...

    Actually I was thinking specifically about the Obi-Wan/Vader duel in ANH. There is No music there.... why not insert some modified Duel of the fates.

    Things like that.... oh and Imperial march in ANH, dont have to change everything
     
  25. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    "I think the real concern is not 20 years from now, but now. As in "I want it NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!"

    So would it make more sense to you if we said we wanted the O-OT twenty years from now, as opposed to saying we want it now?

    "You want Lucas to go the extra mile, you SHOW him how devoted you are to your beliefs."

    In case you forgot, the O-OT already exists. The "extra mile" is all the changes being made to the SE's.

    "Personally I think the only reason why LFL won't release the O-OT is because they think that it won't make them any money."

    If they believe that, they are sadly mistaken. I think it's also likely Lucas feels the OT sales may exceed the SE sales, if not match them. That would be embarrasing.

    "Yes, but internet users are not the only demographic they look at. They only need to look at box office receipts to know the movies are popular."

    The O-OT made more money at the box office than the SE's. Thanks for the assist. :)

    "In the face of an unlikely financial incentive, Lucas can afford to make an artistic choice."

    I refer you back to these polls...here and here. While it's true that the internet community is a subset of all SW fans, I've yet to see you or anyone else provide any evidence (other than your personal opinion) that the O-OT would not sell well.

    I'll wait. :)

    "As appleseed noted, just trying to put things in perspective."

    And as everyone else noted, it was hardly that. There are events that dwarf 9/11, but it would be just as pointless to bring them up, as well as immensely off-topic.
     
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