*OFFICIAL THREAD* RotS Discrepancies, Gaping Plot Holes and Continuity Problems

"I don't think any of the things the origonal poster said were plot holes actually are plot holes. However, to say that SW dosen't have plot holes is just foolish. Look at TPM. Dosen't make sense. One minute sidious wants the queen dead, then he wants her to sign a treaty, then he wants her dead again, and palps wants totally different things and its the same guy!!!"

It really wouldn't be a good diguise at all if Senator Palpatine were always around saying "I WANT AMIDALA DEAD! I WANT HER HANDMAIDENS DEAD! I WANT HER GUNGAN DEAD!"

" One of my favourite lines makes little sense to me now and i was hopitn after ROTS it would. In ROTJ Vader says "obi-Wan once thought as you did" meaning Obi-Wan also thought there was still good in Vader a but we do not see that, in fact we see the opposite in a way. Obi-Wan never once tries to appeal to Vaders good side or mentions that he beleives there is still good in him."

From the short clip and all the dialogue in the Revenge of the Sith game during the Mustafar battle, it sure seemed like Obi Wan was trying to lure Anakin back to the light side...

" Anakin in the book adaptation of RoTS can understand R2 without a translator. Obi-wan comments on it if I remember right."

No, in the book it states that Anakin can somehow almost understand R2. He doesn't really understand, but he picked up a few things from being with him so long. I mean, wouldn't you, if everytime R2 said "Beep-woop-wrrr-whistle-beep", a translator onboard a ship or something said "May the force be with you"? He doesn't get everything Yoda says, but he associates bits and pieces with either things he wants to hear, or things he remembers.

 

It's been said a million times but I'll say it again;
Obi-Wan says, "I don't remember owning a droid".
From a certain point of view he wasn't lying.
Regardless, I hate threads like this.

 

I'm sure all of you who think a lot of these "gaping holes" are ridiculous, would be intersted in the Rebel Alliance thread that's going around. There are people who don't understand why the Rebellion trusts the Jedi in the OT.

I have come to the conclusion that there are a lot of idiots who can't think for themselves on these threads. People who need Lucas to explain everythign in detail or there lives are just not complete. These are the people we all must worry about. these are the fans who give all of us a bad name in the media.

People need to understand that this movie can and will not answer every question every fan has. If it did, it would be a long expository of dialogue that would bore the living heck out of all of us other fans who have brains and use them to connect the dots.

 

I have come to the conclusion that there are a lot of idiots who can't think for themselves on these threads. People who need Lucas to explain everythign in detail or there lives are just not complete. These are the people we all must worry about. these are the fans who give all of us a bad name in the media.

And you're worried about them? Ha ha.

 

"SMITHNEGUAN ? You are correct. Sidious clearly has an override. But why would the casual fan even understand that? The entire issue over who ordered the clones has never been resolved. It was pretty confusing in AOTC and is never mentioned again in ROTS. No Sifo Dyas. Nothing. So suddenly, not only has Palpatine fooled everyone, surprise, he also has master control of the free clones the Jedi have been using. It just smacks of convenience. And the thing is, there is a real explanation for it that we all know but the movie fails to illustrate it.

This is because we barely see Sidious in this saga. If we had some scenes with him doing this stuff (remember, the clones are ordered at the time of TPM!) it would make much more sense.
But as the film is made, it just happens. Sifo Dyas is supposedly the person who ordered the clones and is a ?Jedi Master? but (surprise!) the Kaminoans have given a Darth Sidious ultimate command over the clones. And they never mention it to Obi Wan or Yoda when they hand them over that in the middle of a war, the million or so clones could completely stop fighting if ?Darth Sidious? tells them to.

Oh and he could also order them all to kill you.
Huh? "

Ok, tell me, who's higher in command, the General, or the Commander-in-Chief? That's my answer. Palpatine has immediate power over the entire army, more power over them then the Jedi. He'd have the same power even if the clones weren't made for him, and they were all just volunteer soldiers. It's the Supreme Chancellor who has the power, not the Jedi. The Supreme Chancellor owned the Jedi at that point thanks to the Senate.

 

People need to understand that this movie can and will not answer every question every fan has.

Clearly, as some are quite mad.

But explaining who Sifo-Dyas was and who indeed ordered the clones needs answering. As Yoda said, "dangerous and disturbing this puzzle is..."

Not one that needs solving though apparently so why bring attention to it in the first place?

 

More confusing to me is why in AOTC Yoda chose to use an army whose origin was a dangerous and disturbing mystery. By ROTS the Jedi trust them completely, to their ruin. This can be explained by the years of loyal service the clones have given the Jedi, but it seems like pretty poor planning for Jedi.

 

If you just got word that there was a galaxy-conquering amount of droids bent on galactic domination being built and was on its way to start conquering, and you had no army at all, wouldn't you take anything you can get as fast as possible?

 

Perhaps. But I wouldn't be very quick to trust them, and I'd sure keep digging for an explanation. At some point it should have been considered the Sith were involved, and precautions taken. War is hell, though. I can accept that it happened, but I still shake my head.

 

Perhaps. But I wouldn't be very quick to trust them, and I'd sure keep digging for an explanation. At some point it should have been considered the Sith were involved, and precautions taken. War is hell, though. I can accept that it happened, but I still shake my head.

Well exactly.

 

From the short clip and all the dialogue in the Revenge of the Sith game during the Mustafar battle, it sure seemed like Obi Wan was trying to lure Anakin back to the light side...

There's nothing in the book about Obi trying to turn Anakin, or any inkling that Obi thought there might still be good, only a deep regret over what Anakin has become and a hesitation to kill him. Obi still loves him despite him being evil. It's possible to consider Obi's appeal to let him take Padme to a med as an attempt to turn Anakin to some good, but that's stretching it.

Perhaps the movie has some dialog with Obi trying to turn him back. I don't know, though. After Anakin killed all those children it's hard to imagine Obi thinking there's still good him. I'd rather surrender the line from ROTJ to a changing storyline than try to justify that one.

 

Nobody ever said that they never questioned the Clones. Hell, Yoda didn't seem to trust them entirely. Mace and Yoda seemed disappointed at Palpatine's announcement of creating a grand army of the Republic when they witnessed it from their balcony. The end of the movie shows that Yoda wasn't happy with it. Of course he saw that they were commendable and could be trusted through the Battle of Geonosis, but he didn't feel too secure with them, you could see that at the end of the movie.

 

Personally, I think that the Jedi working with the clone army is a very weak plot point as well. I think Lucas used the "Clone Wars" phrase in the OT so he had to figure out what the Clone Wars were actually about for the PT. Whatever, it'll do.

Also, Ben still refers to Owen as his brother in ROTJ. Lucas basically decided that this "hole" could not be closed and will likely change ROTJ to fix it (he may have done this already, I can't say I've followed it)

I think it's interesting that someone pointed out the widely-misused phrase "immaculate conception" It is little known that Jesus was NOT "immaculately conceived". His mother MARY was born without "Original Sin" which is what the phrase "immaculate conception" refers to. It has nothing to do with virgin birth. It's a good trivia question!

 

" Also, Ben still refers to Owen as his brother in ROTJ. Lucas basically decided that this "hole" could not be closed and will likely change ROTJ to fix it (he may have done this already, I can't say I've followed it) "

I never, at any point, heard Obi Wan refer to Owen Lars as his brother in the OT. Where do you get this in the films?

 

Also, Ben still refers to Owen as his brother in ROTJ.

He never said Owen was his brother in ROTJ.

That was in the novelization, but not in the movie.

 

Good. Because I never read the novelization or screenplay or anything, I just saw the movies all my life, and I never once heard anything about them being brothers until I saw on the internet that that's how it was in the novelization.

 

All the scripts I find on the internet have the same quote. It's been many years, so I can't confirm that this is the way it goes, but it rings a bell. Can anyone confirm that this was NOT in the movie?

BEN (continuing his narrative)
When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your
mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep
you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible. So I took you
to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother took Leia
to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan.

 

No, that line is not in the movie. Don't you have it on DVD?

 

Nope I don't. I'm not quite as big a fan as others.

I probably read the novelization when I was a kid, cause I always thought Ben and Owen were brothers, but the line mustve been cut from the movie.

 

The only way to confirm it would be to post all 3 original trilogy movies and telling you to watch them for yourself, that or posting everything Obi Wan says in the movies, and I doubt any of us has that kind of time.

 

Ok, tell me, who's higher in command, the General, or the Commander-in-Chief? That's my answer. Palpatine has immediate power over the entire army, more power over them then the Jedi. He'd have the same power even if the clones weren't made for him, and they were all just volunteer soldiers. It's the Supreme Chancellor who has the power, not the Jedi. The Supreme Chancellor owned the Jedi at that point thanks to the Senate.

You?re missing the point. When did Sidious have the opportunity to have this override implanted? It?s never explained. And it could have been very easily since we as 3SAers know the answers. It?s never explained at all and I think it is just confusing to casual fans.

More confusing to me is why in AOTC Yoda chose to use an army whose origin was a dangerous and disturbing mystery. By ROTS the Jedi trust them completely, to their ruin. This can be explained by the years of loyal service the clones have given the Jedi, but it seems like pretty poor planning for Jedi.

This is exactly right. Just because the droids are attacking doesn?t mean that the Jedi should trust the clones. It?s so dubious it?s almost silly. Not to mention that the Kamino is ERASED from the Jedi archive (i.e. someone is covering their tracks) so it should seem pretty nefarious. And the villain of AOTC happens to be living on Kamino and be the template of the clones. And when he thinks he has killed Obi Wan, where does he go? Right to Geonosis and Dooku, the Sih. Just red flags all over the place.

But that is the plot hole of AOTC.

And mind you, no one even asks where Yoda got the Republic gunships, speeders, missiles, AT-ATs and all the other massive armaments he comes with to Geonosis.

As someone stated earlier, this is something that could be explained in a few lines and give the plot and storyline some significance. I just feel like important plot points are getting unnecessarily jumbled.

 

You?re missing the point. When did Sidious have the opportunity to have this override implanted? It?s never explained. And it could have been very easily since we as 3SAers know the answers. It?s never explained at all and I think it is just confusing to casual fans.

He is the SUPREME CHANCELLOR, so he has ultimate authority over the clone army. I don't think the average viewer needs to have every bit of information spoon-fed to them like they were 3 years old.

More confusing to me is why in AOTC Yoda chose to use an army whose origin was a dangerous and disturbing mystery. By ROTS the Jedi trust them completely, to their ruin. This can be explained by the years of loyal service the clones have given the Jedi, but it seems like pretty poor planning for Jedi.

The dark side clouds everything... simple as that!

 

Huh? I think you need to read up on that one again.

 

They could've had Order 66 briefed to them at any point in time! They weren't all fighting CONSTANTLY, they had times when they WEREN'T fighting, times when they were at rest, they could've been told at any time. This really isn't an issue at all, you don't see every second of every clone's life in the films.

 

Green_Destiny_Sword, GL doesn't have time to explain everything...if he took the time to explain every plot-hole then we wouldn't be able to see the "real important" parts of ROTS, like cgi wookies and the real meat of the story, the hunt for general grievous...