*OFFICIAL THREAD* The Cutting Room Floor: Editing Discussion For ROTS

A wipe is a transition in which two scenes are shown with a divisor of some kind moving across the screen. A typical wipe is a vertical or horizontal line (sometimes it is a solid line, sometimes it's blurred), but the "iris" (a growing or shrinking circle to the center of the screen) or more complicated patterns are also considered "wipes". A "dissolve" or "fade" is also technically a "wipe" to distinguish it from the usual transition: a "cut". Although fairly easy to perform and therefore common in video editing, wipes are rather rare in film but are a trademark feature in the Star Wars saga.

 

I don't think ROTS was edited badly at all; in fact, "bad editing" is being tossed around like "plot hole." If you don't like a part of the movie, say you don't like it. Don't try and justify it by calling it bad editing or a plot hole. The above poster who complained about the focus on buzz droids during the opening space battle is a good example. Since the scene was MEANT to focus on Obi-Wan's and Anakin's efforts to reach then rescue the chancellor, and NOT the rest of the battle, then to say it's badly edited because GL focused on what the sequence was 100% about is silly. To jump around from this to that and show 2 or 3 perspectives on the battle would be to undermine the point of that sequence. I'm sorry that person didn't like it, but it was not edited badly. That the action is clear, easy to follow, and drives the plot forward indicates to me that the sequence was edited very well.

 

GL really dropped the ball on the QGJ thing....

I mean really... He has been going on and on about the Jedi-disapearing thing for years now. He kept saying "it will be explained".... after EP1, no explaination... then he says "oh we will explain it.." EP2 comes along... still no explaination at all... then as he is trying to wrap up multiple plot points in EP3, he claims once again "it will be explainied..." then after 10 years of saying it will be explained... we get this tiny, 10 second dialogue from Yoda that no one (except some serious SW freaks like me) can understand.

I absolutely love ROTS... it rocks through and through... but seriously, the ball was totally dropped with the QGJ/disapearing thing... totally.... almost as much as the character development of the fetts...

 

The first Dooku force push on Obi-Wan was a bad edit and a bad shot.

There were some spots where the shots could have used a bit more of a pause before the edits happened. During the Last "I didn't Say anything" by Obi-Wan they cut from him too quickly.

The wide shot where anakin is touching padme's belly they are laughing. It is a weird jump to him being so serious.

 

" The wide shot where anakin is touching padme's belly they are laughing. It is a weird jump to him being so serious."

This is the real, only problem I had with the film. I much would've prefered the intro to this scene because it was a sweet moment between the two. It's a very odd jump. If I had to re-edit Sith, I'd add that opening moments from this scene back into the film. Just to avoid that odd jump.

 

Let me say this about qui-gon: Too much explanation sucks. I also would be completely dissapointed if we actually saw qui-gon. If you think of the films as a whole, it would blow Ben's great second entrance when he tells Luke to use the Force in ANH. That moment is a jaw dropper, and if we saw qui-gon as a blue ghost before that, it would ruin that moment because we would wait for it. Not to mention the first time he appears as a force ghost. I personally like how vague it is, and I like that Obi is the first we see come back.

As for editing, there were a few I noticed, but nothing bad really:

When Anakin is walking with Obi-Wan in the Temple and is angrily pacing saying "It's never been done before in the history of the Jedi. It's insulting!" he is walking at a quick, frenzied pace. Cut to the wide shot, and he and Obi are milling slowly as if they were walking with yoda.

When Anakin says, "What things?" on Mustafar, it isn't remotely synced up with his lips and the timbre of his voice is wholly different.

 

Qui-Gon should have been heard. The way Yoda mentions him in such an off-hand manner right at the end of the movie (after he wasn't mentioned at any other point) was abrupt and silly.

Really, even if we had heard him, it would have seemed strange after not building towards Qui-Gon's return. At the very least we should have had Obi-Wan and Anakin talking about him during the duel. There was also a great opportunity to bring his name up in the scene where Obi-Wan is telling Anakin what a great Jedi he will make - Afterall, thats a reworking of TPM scene with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. If we had heard Qui-Gon's name at the odd point during the movie, the Yoda comments at the end wouldn't have seemed so abrupt.

 

I think it only seemed abrupt because most of us were expecting more. My companions loved that it was mentioned at all. Getting any sense of the afterlife was a cherry on top of ROTS.

I think what is good about how it stands now is that the two trilogies are clearly differentiated by true spirituality. The PT is much colder and more institutional as far as the Jedi, and the OT is about a special connection to the force. I like that at the tail end of ROTS, we learn qui-gon is around somewhere -- perhaps doing so now beecause Anakin truly has failed -- to move things along for the future. The same way that all we needed was the kickoff and ending of the clone wars to get a sense of it, we only needed a little indication that something more special, something supernatural, was coming.

 

I agree that too much exposure to the QGJ issue would not be good. however, the miniscule dialogue devoted to it doesn't elighten even one 'normal' viewer to the situation. Ask any normal viewer (I mean, not one of us..) and they will not be able to explain anything about QGJ's relationship with the afterlife, or even what the heck Yoda was talking about...

 

I've come to the conclusion that Qui-Gon, whether seeing or hearing, would've been too much. This film was meant to answer questions and GL did that. But, I like the fact that he leaves a little bit of mystery left by not including Qui-Gon's exposition.

It keeps the Force mysterious. Sure, there are clues throughout the Saga that explain the Force but it's not explicit. That Qui-Gon exposition would've been really explicit. I'm glad it's not there.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I am glad it isn't explained. I would have died if there was a scene where the force ghosts were truly "explained" the way Lucas was indicating they would be. When he said that, I got worried. I don't want a literal explanation, I don't want to know the how's and why's. I think the afterlife stuff is perfecetly handled in the OT and I am all for any decision which leaves it mostly to those films, which is how ROTS does it. All we get is one little indication that, just as the sith has hit the fan, there is a new hope out there and that a bygone friend is going to be coming back to help.

 

Exactly NoClones....

As far as this film goes, it sits number 2 on my list of the best in the Saga but I have a asterick beside it because I want to see what Lucas adds to the DVD. Depending on what little snippets he adds, it could jump pass A New Hope as number 1.

Sometimes adding little parts to the whole can make a huge difference. Attack of the Clones is a great example. "To be angry is to be human." "I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this."

That little extra 25 seconds was huge for me. It changed the character of Anakin for me in that film.

 

I think one bad thing about the Yoda/Sidious and Anakin/Obi-Wan scenes, was that I was so into the Obi-Wan/Anakin duel, that I just didn't care about Sidious/Yoda, which isn't fair, becuase they are the Masters, and they should be given some credit. But I'm not complaining. I love this movie, and it was absolutely perfect.

 

Sorry guys... you a wrong... Mystery? what Mystery? Anyone who actually knows enough to know that there even IS some kind of mystery there, knows exactly what is going on... so there is no mystery... The only mystery for 'normal' viewers is...what the heck was Yoda talking about? I love the spirituality of Star Wars.. but like it or not... its not spirituality without science.. midichlorians exist, and QGJ was able to figure out how to retain his identity. One of the biggest moments in the saga is when Ben decides to go-to-the-force during his last battle with Vader... the QGJ side-story adds SO MUCH to this... but you don't care.. because you know.. you know all about it.. only thing is... no one who isn't as obsessed with SW like you (and me) simply don't get to enjoy that aspect of the movie..

..even though GL kept saying he would enlighted them... actually.. the only way GL ever enlighted anyone to the whole thing is through inteviews, and quotes! That is a crime to me that others can't enjoy the 'real' story when Ben goes down and comes back.

 

well the idea that scientific explanaiton of how qui-gon was able to retain his identity should have been in the movie is absurd. The science of a make-believe place? After the emotional stuff at the end of ROTS, we were supposed to see qui-gon come in and demystify and explain exactly what he did? No way. That's just the kind of Star Trek crap I was afraid of.

The only reason midichlorions were involved at all was to give some measure of how powerful Anakin was so that people would not question why the Jedi believed that. With a council that, storywise, has to be reluctant to take anakin, Lucas needed a way to show without a doubt that as far as sheer potential, Anakin had the most.

I don't need literal explanations in mythology. Homer's Odyssey didn't have them, and neither should star wars.

 

Are the people complaining that they didn't get a Qui-Gon Force-ghost explanation, the same people that complained we did get a Qui-Gon midichlorian explanation six years ago?

 

Thank you NoClones...

Demystifying is what exactly that little scene would've done after all that emotion we'd been through. It makes sense to cut it. Plus, it would've been too long. We need to get back to Padme and Anakin....as their fates had yet to be finalized to the viewer. We, as the audience, wanted to see what becomes of those two. Having a 2 minute interlude of Qui-Gon would've broke the flow of emotion GL had established in the last hour of the film.

 

tho i can see the reasoning behind deciding to cut the scene in bail's office to focus on anakin's story, i agree with toni's points about keeping it in to give padme a more active role and intro mon mothma. the "birth" of the alliance to me took place in the pod as palpatine made his speech.

also agree with others about cutting in too late on anakin and padme's scene in which he is playing with her belly. a playful moment between the two would have felt much more natural.

i think the force ghost explanation was handled extremely well. when i first saw the film, i had just completely forgotten that point not being addressed at all. then yoda brings it up masterfully, tying into the theme of a new hope (not the film per se, but the very idea). if i was going to keep any qui-gon actually in the film, it would been two or three words in voiceover in the establishing shot of the base where padme gives birth and i would have cut it before we see yoda meditating. but if it had been included, it would have seriously lessened the impact of his revelation to obi-wan.

the point was made that lucas did a good job keeping qui-gon's presence in AOTC but dropped the ball here and i agree. g-fett makes an excellent point about the missed opportunity to merely mention him as obi and anakin part for the final time as friends. i think that mention would have been enough foreshadowing to yoda's revelation.

the point of the hairbrush scene was to show that all was well in ani and padme's world, but it was so poorly written, it could definitely have been cut. i thought this was the only bad scene in the movie, everybody cringed at it. although i do really love the music for that segment.

of course, my favorite editing moment in the film was the decision to cut away to obi-wan's reaction on anakin's admission of arrogance. it was quick, subtle, and brilliant, lending depth to ewan's performance, their characters' relationship, and the humanity of the entire saga.

on the wipes... well, after having seen the film 13 times, i can honestly say that i can't recall noticing a single one of them! i guess that's a good thing...

i have made this mistake at least once on set before myself, but i must mention that you don't pan up or down, you tilt... panning describes a left or right motion.