OOC Out of Bounds (The ELL OOC Thread)

The computer engineers/programmers I work with have recently been talking about the value of having uninterrupted focus time. I do my best to give that to them. While they haven't gone into detail about what they actually do during those periods, at least one has mentioned getting on a roll and realizing hours had passed. We'll see what other nuggets I can covertly mine from them.

 

The Cloud City Sky Captains are absolutely the SAL affiliate the Miners deserve. Why?

• For years and years and years the Miners stubbornly had no affiliate under Quinn Cundertol because he thought they weren't useful. So obviously when Cundertol leaves, they get an affiliate who is not useful.
• The Sky Captains mirror the actual performance of real life sports teams I support.
• When I thought about the team, I thought, "Hey, this is probably a vacation destination. What if half the purpose of the team is to bring in tourists who want a fun road trip? And if that's the case, what if ownership is more interested in selling tickets to out-of-towners than locals, which makes the actual performance of the team less important?"

Every time I see the Sky Captains lose, it weirdly makes me happy.

 

@Bardan_Jusik I suspect there's some kind of sports controversy I haven't heard about that involves deadening a ball?

 

MLB deadened the ball a bit for the 2021 season.

 

Just proves that even our GM doesn't like lightball.

 

Can you blame him with what he's got to work with?

 

Looks like all of the defenses took the week off!

 

As the scores were coming up I thought, "Well I know what the Pit is talking about this week."

 

And I know what @TheBestBast is going to be talking about on CatChat.

 

Book it.

 

I love these shorts...I want to do a Limmie version of them some day but, that would require more focus than I could possibly muster.

 

1. Eh, who needs a 38 roll in the SAL anyways. Just do the hard work in extra time!
2. This is why Disney needs to pay us to work on limmie real time. They reportedly spent $25 million per episode for WandaVision. With $250 million we could absolutely put together an amazing limmie TV series to add greater context to the Star Wars universe.
3. How cute. 41 years without a national championship. Isn't that darling. It's not like some of us have been waiting 62 years just to play in the Rose Bowl (or any other major bowl).

 

So, two ideas

1. (The Idea I want to go with) 8 seasons, each one focusing on a different team, starting at the draft and going to the finals (or ending before so as to prevent staleness) We can pack all the sports movies into this run, the new team of misfits that somehow do well, the former champions that have fallen on hard times trying to redeem, and the loveable losers that eventually claw their way to the finals. And we can be setting up these stories in the earlier seasons like for the loveable losers (who if I was show runner would get their spotlight season as the 8th and final one) each team is like "Oh that's a bye week for us." In the previous seasons. Bascailly every season is a Marvel movie setting up the next two or three.

2. (The idea that will get greenlit) We cover one season with eight episodes each one covering a different team. And something has to be special about the season, a new format, threat of a lockout or contract negotiations, something to be simmering throughout the year until we get to the finals where we blow the whole thing off. Then beg and plead with viewers to keep watching so we can make another season.

 

#2 would absolutely get green-lit with one change: not only do we blow everything off so nothing actually changes, but then we put a post-credit teaser in where we drop some tantalizing bomb like:

• "Whaaaaaaaat? Awkwafina's going to be in the next season?!"
• "No way! Timothee Chalumet got traded to THAT team?!"
• "OMG, Chris Evans is going to get drafted first overall next season?!"

And how do we convince Kathleen Kennedy to fund us? Easy: "Don't you want Ted Lasso with lightsabers?"

 

Y'all need to get your SAL teams bonus rolls, because right now the top two spots in the standings halfway through the season are NPC teams and we can't allow that to stand.

 

That's just loony.

Yes, I said it.

 

Hello team ELL!

I've been thinking about the fact that we've seen less posting in the game thread lately. We also haven't seen new players flourish for some time. Even though I continue to enjoy ELL, I feel that a fun game is a game with healthy participation by people.

That's why I'd like to share some ideas for revitalizing ELL with the hope of attracting more players. Because we're a close group, I'm interested in your take on these ideas. I don't play in other RPF games, but I know some of you do. This means you might be more in touch with what could make this game fun for new players.

I'd also like to hear any ideas you have that would improve the game! I've benefited from and participated in systems where idea generation and learning is shared. I likely wouldn't be where I am today in a host of ways if others hadn't believed that good ideas can come from anywhere.

Here are the boundaries in my mind for this conversation:

• The game will still be about limmie.
• There will be scores on a weekly basis.

Honestly, that's it. Here are the ideas, in no particular order.

Start a new thread every season

It's cool that ELL is visibly one of the longest-running games in the RPF. While we know where the breaks are in the game to add new players, it's likely not evident to others. I've also kicked the tires on joining some other games and when I see a long game thread I think, "Wow, there's a lot to learn here."

If we start a new thread each season, that sends a clear signal to others about when there's an easy time to join. Continuing players would just need to affirm that they're continuing. If they're using the same character as last season, they'd be automatically approved. We could also begin that thread when the regular season ends. This would allow continuing players to get a jump on their offseason stories without having to wait for the playoff teams.

Create a better new player experience

Relatedly, I think I need to do a better job of onboarding. Consider the current system:

1. PM me to say you're interested
2. Write a character sheet
3. Come up with a team (and check that it's not taken by someone else)
4. Write a team sheet of 15 players, a head coach, and stadium
5. Decide if you're going to do the draft
6. Figure out what the heck is going on and how to write in a game that allows you considerable latitude to tell stories

That's a lot. If we couple this idea with starting a new game thread each season, we can provide more guidance to new players, both in terms of getting started and understanding. It would be a 1-minute guide of what's what to help people get started. For example, the OP can actually include contextual details about where the league is.

We'd only be able to go so far if we kick the thread off in advance of the completion of the previous season, but I think we could give new players enough detail.

We could make the new player onboarding as simple as:

1. PM me to say you're interested
2. Write a character sheet (which includes the team, selected from a curated library thread post)

In this scenario, I'd give each new player a team sheet they could customize to whatever degree they want.

Slim the game back to basics

We created a lot of side stuff to give the experience texture: the SkimmerAde League, GCAA scores, the Draft. I enjoy these things, but it means there's a lot going on in the thread. We could remove these elements to make the game more straight forward for new players. I've run this by Bardan and jc and they are OK dropping the SAL and GCAA scores if that's the way we want to go.

I especially enjoy the Draft, but it puts a high burden of participation at the start of the season. I suspect it could be overwhelming to new players to figure out that craziness right out of the gate instead of actually pursuing their character's story. Eliminating it could also spur more trade activity, which is just as fun.

Allow multiple players on one team

I'll admit--I haven't figured out the mechanics of this one yet. However, some players might enjoy being paired with an existing player and being part of their team. This would create built-in, week-to-week opportunities for collaboration and interaction (which the current game doesn't offer). People could transition to their own team when they felt ready.

The kicker to figure out here are bonus rolls and how they'd work for multi-player teams. I wouldn't want to penalize a team for having someone join and partner with a player, only to disappear. At the same time, I want to reward posting as much as possible.

This could combine with some kind of mentorship model/buddy system to help new players get their footing in the game.

Create a new player story flow to help them settle in

ELL is a different game compared to most everything else on RPF. You get a lot less in the way of prompts to guide your character. We've always said that ELL isn't for everyone, but it has something for everyone. You have to know what that something is from the get-go, though.

Anything else?

I'll open the floor for thoughts from all of you. And apologies for dropping a pretty heavy topic on you all!

 

My thoughts:

• Start a new thread every season: no. No no no. We have the badge of honor of being such a long-running game and we should wear that. However, there are some good ideas here, and perhaps some more frequent OP updates would be useful.
• Create a better new player experience: Definitely need a more streamlined onboarding process. In fact, this has been one of the roadblocks to me getting back into the game full-time, is that I would essentially have to onboard again via creating a character sheet, creating or updating a team sheet, draft participation, etc., and I just don't have time for all of that right now. If it was a simple matter of creating a character sheet, I'd be playing right now.
  
• Slim the game back to basics: I vote for eliminating regular-season SAL and GCAA scores and just posting final standings and playoffs. Maintains the immersion of limmie existing outside of our little ELL world, but also avoids overwhelming users with three score posts per week. However, I'd be fine with totally eliminating both as well. I also suggested eliminating the draft; it's a hurdle for new players to overcome, and quashes player-for-player trades, but more importantly, it breaks the one-post-per-week cycle the game otherwise uses. It requires active participation on random days on short notice, and is inaccessible to anyone who is limited to posting on a particular day or whose availability is unpredictable (retail workers, etc.).
  
• Allow multiple players on one team: Sounds interesting, but I think the logistics would be too complex. So I vote no.
• Create a new player story flow to help them settle in: Yes! I think the lack of prompts is the chief reason new players fall out of the game. In most RPF games, most of your IC posts are a response to tags. I wonder how many players have come in expecting tags to respond to and not gotten the prompts they were expecting. This is a very different game from the others in the RPF (much more like a collaborative fanfic), and it would help us to make it more similar by providing story prompts for those who are less used to writing their own stories.

 

Before I respond to jc's thoughts, I'd be interested in any other perspectives from @Bardan_Jusik @galactic-vagabond422 @JM_1977 @The Jedi in the Pumas @Vehn and anyone lurking in the shadows.

 

• Start a new thread every season: Negative. I'm proud of what we have built here even though I am nowhere near as active as I seem to promise to be every season for the last ten or so. ELL still holds a special place in my heart which explains why I inexorably come back to play the beautiful game very season. It's only been my fault lately that I haven't been as active.
  
• Create a better new player experience: Translation: Streamlined. Maybe players need to pick a dormant team and revive them instead of making something new? I mean other games restrict you to certain player roles...
  
• Slim the game back to basics: Yes, Yes and more yes. I'd be down for eliminating the draft (as much as I have enjoyed it since we first created it) and the other league scores. The game has gone off in so many different tangents, some great, some not so great. I cannot believe how cluttered my library thread is after all these years. (Read: My fault!) I remember when ELL first started and all we had to work with was a general history of the game, the rules, how the game is played, and team roster. I think the hardest part was thinking up 15 really cool names to use for my squad. I mean really cool. @Trieste knows.
  
• Allow multiple players on one team: There's only a few people on this board I'd trust to help use my Smugglers. They're currently in this game thread .
  
• Create a new player story flow to help them settle in: Yes! Absolutely. As JC said this game is very much like a collaborative fanfic. Which for those of us that dwell in that world isn't too hard to pull off. I think maybe new players might need to have more tags directed at them to prompt replies like "HSN Headlines" or planetary rumors. I mean for crying out loud our modern sports world is full of controversies and issues. Looking at you Jon Gruden, Houston Astros, Deshaun Watson, ghost of Kobe Bryant. I understand, as a GM, that'd be harder to put that much effort into new blood.

I think there's an issue that isn't being discussed which is more RPF related and that we aren't getting as much foot traffic as used to in my opinion. Call it lack of good Star Wars material or just people set in their ways. I could be wrong and maybe its the circles in which I swim but it seems like games are started and finished and participated in by the same people over and over. Probably because the same population visits these forums over and over. I mean its nowhere as desolate as where @Trieste and I came from all those years ago.

 

Sorry, was out unexpectedly for a couple of days there. I'm back now, but just for today as I'll be gone again this weekend for my daughter's last fall regatta.

Start a new thread every season: Count me as someone who wouldn't mind a new thread every new season. We wouldn't lose any of our history, we can link to previous season threads in each one's OP, and at the end of each season we can edit the old season's title to reflect our Galactic Cup Champion for that season. New Players often find long involved threads too intimidating to join, and even though we are a fairly welcoming bunch, I think that can be off putting to some. Conversely, new thread every season may just further confuse some folks who don't really know what our game is about as we would have threads scattered all over the RPF.

Create a better new player experience: As @Trieste mentioned, this could be slimmed down. I know way back when I joined, I took over mid season for an existing team with full roster, PC, stadium, the works and even then it seemed like a lot going on. I needed a spreadsheet to refer just to remember what team was what, who I had played, who I was going to play and even then it seemed like a very...disconnected, experience. It wasn't until I had played a few seasons that I started to figure out how everything worked and who everyone was. So anything that can make that experience for new players a little less overwhelming would probably be welcome.

Slim the game back to basics: This is a big one, I really, really, enjoy doing the college updates (sometimes more than my own IC posts) for everyone every week, but I can also see that it might make things too cluttered. As I mentioned above, even with a team built for me I still found the game overwhelming at fist, the addition of SAL and GCAA scores probably just helps muddy the waters even more. Add in college rankings and then the draft on top of it and many a new potential Player looks at it all and says screw it. Those things made a lot of sense when we were a thriving game with multiple active players as it gave us even more to do, but now with the game not quite as...healthy, I'd say perhaps we need to trim some of the fat to make the game a bit more accessible for newcomers. Especially the draft, which again I also love however that is most new Players first experience with our game, and of course they always make the first overall pick. That is a daunting task for even an experienced Roleplayer, your first post in a new game and you start off the draft with no real guidance or anyone to work off of. If our goal is to try to make for an easier transition into joining the game then perhaps it is time to shelve some of these things and make for a less overawing first impression.

Allow multiple players on one team: This would be a lot of fun, but as you said very difficult to implement. Something I think perhaps we should look at in the future after being given greater consideration in to how it might work.

Create a new player story flow to help them settle in: This I think could be very helpful. In year's past know when a new player joined mid season they were able to immediately post with their team coming from a PLL perspective. I know that may no longer be an option given that we seem to be slimming things down, but something along those lines with a few headlines sprinkled in here and there (I'd be willing to help out with that too with my PCs on the Pit) for either a PLL/SAL or even college perspective may help guide a new Player into the game and just as you say, settle in.

Anything else?: This is one I almost didn't mention here but since you asked... I think the folks who are already in the game need to post more. Nothing brings in new Players like seeing a health, active game with a lot of people having fun together. Not pointing names or naming fingers here, believe me I know things get busy and RL always comes first and all that. I do, just look at me I missed the last couple of days and am going to be away for the weekend, so I get it. However when prospective new Players come into a game thread and see the last few pages are dominated by posts from only a few people, it dampens the mood. Gives off a vibe of a game that is dying, and who wants to join in on that? We all need to post more and more interactively instead of just posting around each other in circles.

I also think @Vehn is right, we get less foot traffic now a days than before perhaps (though we seemed to get through the bad old days of "no new user registrations" just fine). Lot's of new games in the RPF, but not many new faces, and those that do grace the forum don't seem to gravitate towards this game. Maybe some of these ideas will help, maybe they won't, but I think many of them are worth a try.

 

Thanks for the additional thoughts! I won't respond directly to them for the moment in case we get any others coming in, but I wanted to pick up one thread that's come up and tug on it:

Are we looking in the right place for players?

As we've structured ELL to date, it works best when people are a little more independent and can use a score as a jumping off point. While it's been a long time since I was in another RPF game, that strikes me as being fundamentally different from other games. Would we be better served by finding someone closer to a fanfic writer who responds well to prompts and is interested in loose collaboration with others, kind of like how Vehn and I write our fanfics?

Maybe I'm talking crazy, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

That... actually makes sense. I think it might be worth PMing the fanfic mods to ask about potentially recruiting in the fanfic forum. The worst that can happen is they say no. But I think you're on the right track that we're looking more for fanfic-style writers rather than true roleplayers.

 

Holy Sithspit--I think the Mercs just qualified for the playoffs.

 

You mean holy osik.

And, yes, I do believe you're right... which of course makes their inevitable playoff collapse all the more inevitable.