Owen Lars

How can you make such absolute statements?

 

Nope, sorry. I'm now with Salty.

You're logic is not of this earth. No one will ever win this. You would never accept a contradiciton if you were shown the most contraditing contradiction that ever contradicted.

 

The only time there can be a contradiction is when there are no possibilities that they don't conflict with each other. In the Owen/Obi-Wan thing for example, it is possible that they can be brothers in other ways. If the TOS quote made a blanket statement that they are not brothers in any way, then and only then would it be a contradiction, because that quote wouldn't give any wiggle room. Therefore, Owen/Obi is not a contradiction, because there is an "out." The same goes for Yoda's coloration, and the designation of Luke's squadron.

 

You should join the Blue Yoda Society. You have an appreciation for Blue Yoda and I can respect that.

 

Shelby2

 

Well actually I had not given the blue Yoda thing much thought. The "out" was such an automatic thing in my mind that I just read that passage and moved on.

You know, it might be wise for you to begin thinking about "outs" whenever you think you've come across a contradiction. Just let it bounce around in your head for a little while: "Maybe this could have happened, or maybe something else." Just open your mind, and don't limit yourself to the text on the page.

 

Well all we can is go by the movies, because they are canon. I always thought that Owen was the brother of Obi-Wan from reading the novelization of ROTJ. Now that AOTC has been released we have say that it was wrong.
What George Lucas puts in the movies is what we have to go by.

 

The novelizations are also canon, you know. As is the EU.

 

The EU is canon? I absolutely love reading some of those books, but we could spend days discussing some of the contradictions between different authors

 

Yes, according to LFL policy, the EU is canon. Fortunately, there are no contradictions anywhere in the EU.

 

Cut it out, Bib.

In case you need a reference, rule #2 in this thread.

 

So its safe to say that OB1 and Owen could be brothers come Ep 3 and the novelisation isn't wrong?

 

Bib's only problem is that he/she needs to step back into reality and understand that Star Wars is completely fictional. In reality, there are so many contradictions in the SW universe that it could make one cry. However, in the SW universe, you must figure out how to explain them away so it all makes sense. Bib is stuck in this mode.

 

Cut it out, Bib.

In case you need a reference, rule #2 in this thread.

You know, if EUers aren't allowed to say the EU is canon, then by the same token, purists should not be allowed to say the EU isn't canon. It has to work both ways.

But all I was doing was responding to what they said, nothing more. If responding to posts is not allowed, then there would be a whole bunch more people breaking the rules.

 

wow an oldbie flame war! this is good stuff!


btw: bib is right on all counts. contradictions in Star Wars only exists if you refuse to accept other logical explanations.

 

Are you saying it is impossible for a ship to be a member of two squadrons at the same time? Why are you so closed to the possibilities I've shown you?

Yes absolutely impossible. Unless your commander is a moron you do not give people two different designations. In the heat of battle you do not want your pilots forgetting their squadron IDs. You also don't put people in two different squadrons at the same time, If their two leaders give different orders which is the pilot supposed to follow?

I admire your persistance in finding 'solutions' to the contradictions but don't forget the simplest answer is usually correct. For example in TPM Obi-Wans braid swithces sides mostly on the right but sometimes on the left - how can that not be a contradiction? I suppose you could argue his braid is glued/velcroed to his hair so it may fall off and he puts it back on the wrong side, but surely the simpplest explanation is it's a mistake so leave it at that.

Oh and on the Owen Obi debate since the question asked on the OS was "Q: Is Obi-Wan Kenobi the brother of Owen Lars?" and the answer said "A: No." you can't get around the contradiction. No means no it does not mean maybe they meant 'brothas'.

 

I remember reading this thread back in May and ever since I've been considering Bib's challange to find a contradiction in the EU.

Well, I have come across an error. Allow me to explain.

The question has been asked "If Luke hated the emprie why did he want to go off and join the Imperial Academy in ANH?"

The answer to this question is "The academy that Luke was going off to wasn't an imperial academy. It was a merchant academy that the empire occasionally recruited pilots from." This answer can be corroborated by the ANH Radio Drama in a conversation between Luke and Fixer. Fixer says something to the effect of "I'm not going to join the academy and wait to get picked up by the Empire." I'm sure there are other sources that would further back this.

I am an occasional reader and enjoyer of the EU. I was surprised by the continuity error in Star Wars Empire comic book that featured Bigs Darklighter several months ago. This story started out with Bigs going off to the academy. The academy pictured was quite definitely run by the Empire. The drill sergants (or whatever) were clothed in imperial officer uniforms. The academy shown in this EU source was an Imperial run academy.

This was a contradiction.

It doesn't make me enjoy it less, anyway. I know there are going to be some goof ups now and then because the Star Wars universe has grown so large. No big deal.

 

Maybe Obi-Wan and Owen were fraternity brothers at Delta Kappa Yoda.

 

The question has been asked "If Luke hated the emprie why did he want to go off and join the Imperial Academy in ANH?"

At what point did Luke start hating the Empire, this is obvious in the later parts of the OT (later part of ANH, ESB and ROTJ) but not so much in the early parts of ANH. Could it not be possible that he genuinely wanted to join the Imperial academy not knowing exactly how evil it was, but when he saw the destruction reaked buy the Imperials on his home and the killing of Owen and Beru, this changed his mind.

Just a thought.

 

>>>At what point did Luke start hating the Empire, this is obvious in the later parts of the OT (later part of ANH, ESB and ROTJ) but not so much in the early parts of ANH.

An ANH, just before before Owen and Beru get fried (from memory);

Luke: "It's not that I like the Empire- I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now."

 

Luke: "It's not that I like the Empire- I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now."

The "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" attitude maybe.

Also was he aware that the Empire and the Imperial Acadamy were the same thing? I'm not sure about this.

BTW I'm not trying to justify certain contradictions, but wanting you to see it from another perspective. Suppose in a way I am justifying what Bib said before.

 

The contradiction that I'm trying to point out isn't if Luke wanted to join the empire or not.

What I'm trying to say is that in some EU sources "the academy" isn't affiliated with the empire. They are an orginization much like the Merchant Marine is here. But in Star Wars: Empire comic book Bigs is shown at "the academy" flying Tie Fighters and taking orders from the empire. It even shows him wearing a Tie Fighter Pilot's uniform. "The Academy" shown in this EU source is very different from the academy shown in other sources.

The only other source I can think of off the top of my head is the ANH Radio Drama. Though I know I have read other sources that have also confirmed this.

In fact I think that Bib Fortuna Twi'Lek himself has argued the very point that the academy Luke wanted to join was not affiliated with the Empire. I'll see if I can find an old thread about the academy and cite that if I can.

 

I found this in the FAQ's for this forum:

If Luke hates the Empire (?It?s not like I like the Empire, I hate it?), why was he trying to join the Imperial Academy?


The Academy and the Empire aren?t synonymous (though the cynical galactic citizen would argue that point). As a denizen of a backwater Outer Rim world, an ambitious young man like Luke didn?t have many options of escape into a bigger, richer life. If Tatooine is the equivalent of a small town, then the Academy is college in the big city.

The Academy offers career education in a number of space-based fields, most notably Exploration, Military, and Merchant Services. As the Empire grew more powerful, it began drafting Academy graduates into the Imperial Navy.

Luke?s friend Biggs Darklighter went to the Academy but avoided the draft and landed a commission on an non-combat vessel, the freighter Rand Ecliptic. Luke told Biggs that he was going to join the Academy some day so he wouldn?t get drafted into the Imperial Starfleet.

This information contradicts what is seen in the comic book I've referred to. He didn't avoid the draft at all. He was a soldier for the empire. The Rand Ecliptic was a freighter but in the comic book an imperial officer said that it carried a wing of TIEs and it wasn't strictly non-combat.