Senate Problems with perceptions of masculinity

Especially* the time he personally invaded Vietnam.

 

Master and Commander at 20: how a film about men fighting at sea is actually a safe harbour of positive masculinity (theconversation.com)

 

Any thoughts or insights into the idea that a man should put themselves through hard training or tough circumstances, intentionally to develop themselves?

This has been something I adapted a few years ago. Military training is hard, sure, but I’ve adapted it to my own personal lifestyle as well: I train 6 days a week, I seek out challenges both intellectual and physical, I am very hard on myself when it comes to my growth and progression because I believe that there is… well, I believe that for me true pride in my masculinity or my masculine roles in my household is to be a living example of what I believe.

A man should always seek to improve themselves, for themselves, their families, and their communities and should go about it any way they see fit. But for me… the hard way seems to be fitting right now.

Maybe when I get older I’ll ease up. It’s very likely. But right now I’m the strongest I’ve ever been, fastest I’ve ever been and smartest that I’ve ever been and it seems like a waste to stop at this point.

 

Smells like motor oil and ball sweat in this thread.

 

Yeah, ain't it great?

 

Sarge likes the smell of ball sweat-noted.

 

Only if it's my own!

 

No, but I’m specifically referring to how it relates to the perception and pride of my masculinity. A woman cannot live my perception of my own masculinity.

 

Okay, Captain Caveman

 

I think it depends on what we mean here. I do think that there is a responsibility to grow. However, I don't think that is always best achieved by straining one's self. To use a weight lifting analogy, it's not useful to test one's maximum every day. Instead, you set a steady but achievable plan that allows for incremental progress. Stepping back from that, though, I often feel like there's a major fallacy people can get into in asserting that physical improvement implies anything about their moral or intellectual growth. The first is a lot easier than other two, so then you get people wanting praise for doing things like bathing in unheated water, but ignoring the fact that they still treat others awfully or make rash decisions.

I don't think you're proposing a bad program. But it does some allures that can become very problematic.

 

Neither can another man

 

Extra on the maga

 

Never said they could. If you want to comment on what I’m actually saying about myself and your own analysis on hard training and it’s relationship/lack of relationship with masculinity, please do. I was clear that this is how I choose to do things and I even said that “men should go about improving themselves in any way they see fit.”

Instead of, you know, answering with your opinion on the matter or not commenting at all, the response has essentially been “but what about women?” Or some variation of “are you saying women can’t do that too?”

Im a man, I posted about how I view my masculinity and how it relates to my psychological approach to training and self development. I don’t really care how that politically relates to women.

Thanks Wocky for some actual thought. I agree with what you’re saying, we just view things slightly different on interpretation.

1. I think a weight lifting analogy that reflects what I’m saying is: I’m going to put 100% of my energy into my workouts, everyday, even when I don’t want to, or tired, or barely have time because I believe that consistent challenging behavior and circumstances has a documented record of forcing me to improve myself. Even if it’s incremental, it’s worth it to never “leave good on the table” (not give your all towards something you’re passionate about).

2. I can only speak for me and for what I have observed and I’ll say that a good amount, maybe a slight majority of people who workout do experience intellectual and sometimes moral growth. For example, sometimes you have a fat person who gets on a plan and loses weight and by doing so developed habits of discipline, consistency, commitment, etc, which are positive traits. Also, sometimes a person who has been fat before can develop compassion or at least better understanding of where people who are out of shape presently are mentally. Could they have developed using other paths? Sure, but I don’t think it’s a complete fallacy that pursuing physical improvement can develop a person intellectually or morally. I’d say I would never LEAD with that as a benefit to physical training, but I don’t think the benefits are solely physical.

For me, hard training wears on me physically and mentally, meaning it develops me in both. It doesn’t necessarily make someone a better person, but then what path in life guarantees that?

Put simply: hard training has helped me develop myself and it feels good. My masculinity is tied, presently, to self development through harsh training. It could and likely will change as I get older, and then it won’t be anymore. I think one’s relationship with masculinity must change as one continues to change thru life. When I was 17-22, it was about lifting weights, gaming with the bros, and having relations with women. Now, it’s closely tied to providing for my family, protecting them, and maximizing my potential through self development.

 

Just contemplate the number of galaxies out there, and your masculinity will become an appropriately trivial issue.

 

I found this interesting. I'm glad that my Dad is nothing like this. Of course, my parents have been married since 1972 and they get along so well that I severely doubt that they would ever get divorced. But even if they did, Dad is a great communicator and he has always been open about his feelings and concerns. So, he's always been sweet to me and my Mom.

 

My dad has never been a good communicator with phone calls. But it was also his second wife who is the problem. Namely that she had trouble dealing with kids, yet was a mother herself. This contributed to our not seeing him as often when we lived a hundred miles away. In fact, he missed nine years worth of birthdays because of that.