ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

so...Kylo was Watto confirmed before the edit?

in all seriousness what did this line mean then? do we know?

 

I'd say almost 100% chance he gets redeemed and equal likelihood he doesn't end up romantically with Rey. I wouldn't be surprised to see an uneasy alliance between them aka Professor X and Magneto to take down a common enemy, but Disney isn't dumb and tone-deaf enough to have their patricidal mass murderer end up with the heroine romantically. Even TLJ teased but didn't go there and was subtle enough that none of my friends or family members who saw the movie thought there was anything romantic between Rey and Kylo. When I mentioned to them that that was the director's intention they were all very surprised and said they hadn't seen anything like that in the film.

In the EU post ROS could they end up together? Sure, anything's possible, I mean Luke ended up with Mara Jade who tried to kill him.

 

Magneto is another character I got sick of in X-Men though he was a favorite of mine for a while many decades ago. So many pseudo face/heel turns cause me not to give a crud anymore after a while. It's just like really bad pro-wrestling writing.

Furthermore it's just really obnoxious writing when they veer one way and then veer another and back again constantly in zig zag structure fashion.


Don't write like this

 

PH I believe said that Kylo meant Rey was the awakening he and Snoke felt earlier... Which I in no way buy. It's laughable on its face. She'd already kicked his ass with the force while strapped to a torture table and helpless.

The meaning of that line changed. I'm sure of it. That's why they took it out.

 

I think we were initially going to be told who Rey's parents were in TFA, but they decided to go all mystery box for some reason while editing So they scrubbed anything that referenced the reveal directly. That's my guess.

 

Magneto still has a way more sympathetic backstory and understandable motive than Kylo ever will. Same with Killmonger.

 

You have doubts Rey was ever a Solo to begin with? I believe so based on how insistent George was in the days prior to TFA release about Vader's grandchildren. You also have concept art in which Thea clearly resembles Skyler, with being pictured next to Leia. In adition, some of the earlier rumors were about the Solo siblings, with the Mizzlewump "leak" involving a stormtrooper, Lando's offspring and the Solo's daughter.

All the tweets you have posted came after what I am refering to. So the scenario I am describing could have changed/evolved as pre-production moved forward.

 

The casting call was from mid-2013 and by that time, her role was open to all ethnicity, so it indicates that she no longer was one of the Solo siblings. Could her lineage be one of the reason why GL walked away from being a creative consultant? Possibly. I don't think a stormtrooper deserter and Lando's offspring came from GL.

We all know what was GL's stance on the EU, it's not breaking news. Him taking elements from it doesn't mean he's following the stories.

Michael Arndt: “In my early drafts, my thinking was we had to bridge the end of Return of the Jedi to what happens in this movie, and we didn’t want everybody to start off all together. We wanted them to be spread all throughout the galaxy.” “We came up with a backstory that Luke had a pupil who turned against him and fought him, and killed all the other pupils, and that was a thing that exploded the family and destroyed Han and Leia’s relationship.” “I had thought Han’s story and Leia’s story was just about them coming back together. At the end of the movie they would have reconciled and gotten over their differences. And you would have said, ‘Okay, bad stuff happened, but at least they’re back together again.'” “J.J. rightly asked, ‘What is Han doing in this movie?’ If we’re not going to have something important and irreversible happen to him, then he kind of feels like luggage. He feels like this great, sexy piece of luggage you have in your movie. But he’s not really evolving. He’s not really pushing the story forward.” (December 21, 2015)

Michael Arndt: “I’ll just say very quickly that very early on I tried writing versions of the movie where the girl is at home, her home gets destroyed, she goes on the road, she meets Luke, and then she goes and she kicks the bad guy’s ass. It just never worked. I struggled with this. This was back in 2012. It just felt like every time Luke came in and entered the movie, he just took it over. Suddenly, you didn’t care about your main character anymore because like, ‘Oh ****, Luke Skywalker’s here. I want to see what he’s going to do.’ This was like a huge thing. I feel so bad for J.J. because it was like, ‘The good news is you get to make a Star Wars movie, but the bad news is…’ We had long conversations about this, and J.J. so much wanted to have Luke Skywalker in his movie. But to finally say, again, any time Luke showed up, it suddenly became his movie. So you had to push it to the very end.” (December 22, 2015)

calzmann
My first image I made for Star Wars : The Force Awakens. This was January of 2013. Luke was being described as a Col. Kurtz type hiding from the world in a cave. I couldn’t believe I was getting to make this image and I got a George “Fabulouso” on it to boot.

Phil Szostak‏ @PhilSzostak
"At this point in the story, thirty years after the fall of the Empire, Luke has gone to a dark place. He always had this potential dark side within him, being that his father was Darth Vader. So he is really struggling with that." - Doug Chiang, May 2013, The Art of TLJ book

Phil Szostak‏ @PhilSzostak
"He ended up secluding himself in this Jedi temple on a new planet, and he's just there meditating, reassessing his whole life. Gradually, over the arc of the movie, he rediscovers his vitality and comes back to himself." - Doug Chiang, May 2013, The Art of TLJ book

Like they said, the starting point only shifted.

 

@Ancient Whills I would say the casting call for Rachel and Thomas is from fall 2013. Back in summer 2013, there was an internal private poll at Obiwantstoknowme where LFL asked the exclusive members what was ther opinion about Rachel Hurd-Wood and Alex Pettyfer as the leads. I encourage you to google them and see the resemblance with the Solo siblings concept art.

Now, if we move on to fall 2013, Lucas was just gone and the whole "open to all etnicies" started to appear. Was this one of the key issue Lucas had with the movie? Back in 2014-2015, I was under the impression Rey was obviously related, and since we knew early on Kylo was a Solo, it surprissed me how Lucas kept bringing the damn "where are Vader's grankids?" on time after time.

 

No an ethnic Kira/Rey concept art originates with GL, I submit that GL's cast had 2 young women...

So it was JJ's idea to have Kylo kill Han...

 

I don't think we can definitively say she was/wasn't a Solo 100% yet until the trilogy is over and they can openly talk about the development of the ST.
What I don't like is the idea of making Rey Luke's child so that she will slice off Kylo's head after we had Luke tell us how "nobody is ever really gone". That seems more like a cop-out to me.

This is also another possibility.

That's what it sounds like then we had Harrison Ford who said this:

Harrison Ford: “I was surprised [when the call came from George Lucas]. It was proposed that I might make another appearance as Han Solo. And I think it was mentioned, even in the first call, that he would not survive. That’s something I’d been arguing for for some period of time [since the making of Return of the Jedi], so I said okay.” (September 12, 2017)

Maybe it was also the son who killed the father in GL's treatments.

 

Phil Szostak: "In the late summer 2013, the Visualists were let in on two secrets that would not be revealed to the rest of the world for another year and a half: that the beloved Han Solo would meet his end in The Force Awakens, dispatched by the malevolent Jedi Killer - and that the Jedi Killer would be Han and Leia Organa's son. 'This was big,' Christian Alzmann said in September of 2013. 'We found out that, at essentially the same running time in A New Hope when Obi-Wan gets killed, Han will get killed by the Jedi Killer - by his son! That's super-Biblical stuff, heavy stuff! I had a feeling that Harrison would love it; he's wanted Han to die for a while. The biggest problem we had was that we waited thirty years, and we never saw Han, Luke, and Leia get back together. I wanted to see everyone in the Millennium Falcon cockpit, and then you can kill Han, if you had to. But that won't happen, as far as we know.' The impact of Han Solo's death would reverberate through the two remaining films in the Star Wars sequel trilogy." (The Art of Star Wars: The Last Jedi)

They held a bunch of stuff back from the first Art book and put some of it into the second one.

 

I honestly don't think Ford would've come back if they didn't kill him. But it sounds like it was a given.
Kasden: "Right from the get-go, J.J. and I felt that was gonna happen. I had tried to kill him off 40 years before, and it didn’t fly. So I did think that was always going to be a part of it, but what we’re talking about right now is the granular details of what would be said between Kylo and Han; how would we stage it exactly, at what point does it become clear that Kylo is seducing him into vulnerability. All those things."

 

The fact that KK was so adamant for AD to portray the son of Han and Leia makes me believe that LFL had a very specific story arc for that character. I imagine that concept art about Jedi Killer/Kira came after he accepted to come on board and when the son became the Jedi Killer in summer 2013. There are too many similarities between those two images for it to be a coincidence.




Star Wars Insider: How did you get involved with The Force Awakens?

Adam Driver: I think it was the last day of shooting Girls and I got a phone call to see if I was interested in meeting J.J. Abrams to talk about Star Wars. I thought that it would be interesting to do, so I said “yes.“ A month later, I left for LA and I met J.J. to talk about the role. Then I met with Kathleen Kennedy, who talked more about it. I was very excited. It’s such a big thing and I’ve never done anything quite like this, with this many moving pieces. Wearing a mask is quite a challenging thing. It was very scary and terrifying, so it wasn’t something that immediately seemed like a “yes.” Actually, I thought about it quite a bit, even though it was kind of a no-brainer, but I didn’t want to take it lightly.

How much was J.J. Abrams able to share with you after you signed on?

J.J. Abrams pretty much walked me through the whole thing. He talked about how he wanted to start it and the themes that he was going with. He talked about things that inspired him that he and Lawrence Kasdan were already working on. There have been small changes since then, but it’s all pretty much the same. J.J. had ideas that were very clear in his mind about the conventions that he wanted to upturn and things that grounded Kylo Ren as a character.

Character was something that he talked about the most. I feel like some of the movies are so heavy on special effects or visuals and lots of things get lost as far as two people talking to one another. And that was something that J.J. stressed from the beginning; it was all character—there was hardly any talk of special effects. When we originally met and talked, it was all about grounding these people in a reality, even though it’s a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. If no one cares about what’s happening or no one believes that these people are real, then you won’t care about any of it.

What sense did you have of taking on such a role?

The idea of doing it is a scary thing. Even though J.J. mapped out what that character does, he left out a lot of things for us to discover. He wanted to get my input, which was a huge thing also in a movie of this scale. Suddenly you have a director who wants you to be involved in making it, and given the history of these movies, that’s very exciting. I was a fan of the Star Wars movies when I was younger, so suddenly to work on it in my adult life and have input seems unbelievable.

[...]

Did you talk to J.J. Abrams and costume designer Michael Kaplan about the look of Kylo Ren at all?

It was such an evolving thing. I’d fly in to see what they were coming up with and see nods to Akira Kurosawa, and his jacket that bows out just a little bit, like a samurai, and all those references. Then I’d leave for two weeks and come back to see how it was shaped a little more.

My only input was whether it felt good or bad. I was involved in making it functional, which was great. They were all about how they could make it more efficient and something that someone could wear. It looks great, but if you can’t move in it or breathe in it, then it doesn’t make sense for the audience or the actor.

— Star Wars Insider Special Edition 2018

 

Why didn't they want everybody to start off all together?

Why never reunite them or have them in one scene together? No one has answered that - no one's even asked it so JJ can give one of his word salad answers. They were all hired, fans wanted to see Luke, Han and Leia together, so why was it never done? More importantly, why has anyone complaining about it been shouted down and drowned out with "you just wanted fan service"? They even mention it in an official book but don't answer why. Why is that?

. What a crock. What impact has it had on anything? Kylo can't even articulate why he killed him, Luke isn't shown reacting to his death, Leia gives it about twenty seconds, and they can't even mention his name to each other when they're together. Wow, that's some impact.

 

That image isn't in the TFA art book. The SW one is obviously copied from the photo. The concepts artists spitball sometimes. There is nothing even remotely like this in the book with these characters. Ergo, no, it is not likely that as soon as Kylo was cast, they were planning something like Phantom of the Opera. The Jedi Killer isn't a weirdo stalker in any of the art. Kira's art is focused on her adventure. The Jedi Killer is a bad guy akin to Vader. Sam has a back story and an adventure. That was TFA's focus. Monster bad guy (revealed to be legacy). Adventure for the heroes.

 

I'm not sure on the exact quote but I'm pretty sure the whole splitting everyone up thing was so that they could all get their own moment of re-introduction during TFA. I think it was mentioned in the audio commentary?

On the one hand I get that the story they told didn't allow for a reunion scene, but on the other hand I can't believe they had all the actors together and they didn't think to take one photo of the legacy heroes all together in costume (and if they did why hasn't it been released?!). I'd loved them to have done one shot in full costume, then one with masks off for Anthony Daniels and Peter Mayhew, with Kenny Baker stood by R2 (I know he wasn't in the droid this time but still deserves to be there, and he did get a consultant credit).

 

Since there's no thematic elements to these new stories - well, at least extremely weak thematic elements - then impacts of legacy characters, importance of legacy characters, and influence of legacy characters on the new characters has to be narratively stated by those behind the scenes.

Even when there is ample evidence to the contrary on the screen.

Sometimes when BS is spouted loud enough and long enough concerning how these characters and relationships are meant to be viewed, even though there is visual evidence to the contrary, then hopefully it will be believed and ultimately forgiven and forgotten.

That's my take on the whole debacle anyway.

 

You can do a re introduction of each individually, because you can't think of anything but to copy the original movie, without ripping apart their friendship and love for each other, just to throw it back in our faces. "Oh, isn't it sad that they all broke up because of our new villain who happens to be the only child of all of them! Who you will come to love as our new hero by the third movie!"

Why is there not even a picture of them together in costume? Why if you even ask about it, do certain fans, among them blue check marks on Twitter, basically drown out other fans who ask? Why bother to hire everyone back and then not put them in one scene together and actively try and gaslight fans who were upset that it's "better this way"? There's a story to be told on that front but I seriously doubt we'll ever get it or any indication of the absolutely insane way this whole thing has been put together. Can anyone think of any revived show, movie, etc, that went to the trouble of hiring the original cast in their original roles and never put them in a scene together? Because I draw a blank.

 

As did thousands of concept arts, some of which did end up being added for the Art of TLJ. Who knows, maybe the Art of TROS will have Palpatine concept arts from 2013. It's not like they're going to reveal every story points in the first one, it wouldn't make sense marketing wise.

I didn't say it was "as soon as Kylo was cast" which was early in the process, however it could have been drawn before they cast DR as Rey. They explored with different ideas including looking at other AD works for inspiration. That obviously doesn't mean it WILL necessarily end up in the final film but the imagery could still be relevant—there was a lot of darkside/light side imagery early on in the book for example.

I think they did explore him being injured. The snow fight was inspired by a March 2013 concept art, the same month they dropped Talon for the Jedi Killer.

 

The one in question didn't make the TLJ book if I recall correctly.

I'm sure there are thousands of irrelevant discarded pieces that didn't make the book. They also wouldn't be worth pinning a theory of the trilogy on.

The art that made the book informed the story we actually saw. It's the stuff that was most relevant. Kira with Luke in a temple is obviously not relevant to TFA. That just supports my point that the art you posted is irrelevant to TFA.

What does the Jedi Killer being injured have to do with him being like the Phantom of the Opera? Nothing. It has nothing to do with it. Portraying the Jedi Killer in romantic, angsty images obsessing over Kira would have something to do with that. Too bad there is nothing like that in the TFA art book. That's not the story JJ was telling.

 

They were casting more than one role through those casting calls. So they opened it up to every ethnicity. That's the efficient and resourceful way to cast rather than doing numerous calls for different roles.

I also don't see how people can discount the Mizzlewump script leak when he was the first waaaay before anyone to leak that there were 3 leads including a stormtrooper. AND a lot of what he listed as being in the script turned out to be correct, including a planet being used as a weapon. Also, "Darth Ruin" which became Ren. I think it's pretty obvious at that point in the script at least the character of Rey was indeed the Solo daughter.

 

It's pretty obvious just from the cut "it IS you!" line. It wasn't Rey beating Kylo with the force in a torture chair that made Kylo Ren realize something about her. It was when she beat him at pulling the Skywalker legacy saber.

But yeah, Mizzlewump was obviously legit. He also leaked, dead on, the final lightsaber battle in a snowy forest involving all three new characters, right down to Rey getting thrown into a tree and knocked out.

 

Yes, they held two casting calls for all the young men and women in the movie instead of doing separate calls. Kathleen Kennedy claimed Crystal Clarke and Pip Anderson won the casting call, though we know Jessica Pava and Korr Sella and other roles came out of it as well.



Also, they're not going to put physical requirements in a call if they're trying to hide or don't know what all the roles were going to be because there was no concrete script yet at the time. Reports out of the casting calls suggested Carrie Fisher-esque brunettes were often taken aside for callbacks.

http://nerdybutflirty.com/2013/11/2...and-thomas-the-star-wars-cattle-call-debacle/

http://cardiff-times.co.uk/a-star-wars-episode-vii-open-audition-event-in-gif-form/

This actress was claimed on an anonymous twitter account well before Ridley was announced to be the runner-up (days before Ridley later said was offered the role in February 2014) and this actress was also said to be callbacked.

Ridley also said she auditioned for seven months before getting the role in February 2014, and these casting calls didn't start until November 2013.