ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Maybe the voice is telling her the Ben she could sense through the force as a child, her brother, is close.

 

or she's Rey Kenobi

 

The voice would have said "Obi-Wan" not "Ben". Ben was a false name.

 

Are you then suggesting that Rey knew Ben prior to her abandonment?

Because - again, grammatically - that’s Maz’s words mean if you believe that the true answer is Ben, not Luke.

 

Except the scene is not supposed to be literal... it's mystical. It's not like Rey is thinking this - the force whispers it.

ETA: I'll just say this - I watched the whole scene several times just now and that's how the placement of the "It's Ben" within the actual scene works for me.

 

When I first watched TFA I had never seen Adam in anything before. I thought Kylo and Rey were about the same age so I was surprised afterwards to find he was 29 at the time of filming, because to me he looks younger than that in TFA

 

I knew you would say something like that

I don't suggest anything, I have just discovered this stuff so I haven't processed it yet. And you keep bringing Maz in there while I'm personnally sure that for Maz, "the one who can still come back" is indeed Luke. Maz is not Yoda though. She's right that Luke can come back but maybe she doesn't know everything about "the will of the Force". Maybe when she says that someone can still come back, the Force whispers to Rey that there's also Ben who can come back. Or maybe it says that Maz is wrong to think that it's Luke who needs to "come back".

 

The novel expands on the Force Vision and there is a voice Rey hears that she has heard for a long time in dreams - Pablo confirmed it was a male voice. So if that voice is Ben's then in a way she could have known him through dreams... or when she sees the KoR in the vision, maybe Kylo is seeing her at the same time in the past (like Bran in GoT at Tower of Joy) again a way of meeting before they actually met.

 

That's not what happens in the context of the scene. The "It's Ben" whisper is nowhere near the statement about someone coming back.

 

The TLJ novelization retconned that male voice into Rey's own voice, from what I have seen quoted. Because she needed to be even more delusional, I guess.
Why would teenaged Ben call child Rey "Sweetheart" if they aren't related?
I figured the scene got cut from the movie because we would recognize the male voice saying it.

ETA: compared the original claim I was referencing with the actual book, it actually says nothing about the voice. My fault for not digging deeper into an unreliable source.

 

Retconned?

Rey *feared* it was her own voice.

That “imagined” voice returned and literally saved her life when she was passing out in the shuttle leaving the Supremacy.

Guess it wasn’t a delusion after all....

In either case, it’s someone coming back to Rey.

Which can only be done by someone who had previously been in her life.

 

I guess Rey is like one of those people that fall in love with serial killers and write them letters while they are in prison. Despite Kylo being Space Hitler she just knows in her heart of hearts that love can transform the killer because she is certain that there is a wounded child nested somewhere deep inside that murdering, mind-raping shell. She knows that Ben can be healed if only she can love him enough. It's not his fault he's Space Hitler, it's actually Rey's for not loving him enough. But she can fix this, this is her hero's journey. Or maybe she's just into hybristophilia. That would be a cool story for the whole family. cool cool cool.

 

Yeah I thought my sarcasm was laid on pretty thick

The phrase "father figure" indicates to me that it was the plan from the beginning for her to have mysterious origins. Otherwise it would say "father."

I'm just flipping through the TFA Art Book and reminding myself how certain pictures are cherry picked out of it, totally ignoring and misrepresenting the overall feel for the book and Kira's representation in it. From the beginning, Kira was thought to be on a journey of personal discovery, learning how she fits into the larger force world. She is clearly the central figure of the story from day one. There are no allusions to dark romance or the real last Skywalker hyjacking her story. In fact, they were borderline obsessively afraid of Luke hyjacking her story, so the idea of Ben Solo being the key and Rey being his personal cheerleader has no hints in the origins of this story.

And also, in almost every picture, with a couple exceptions that people post over and over and over, Kira looks related to Padme. If you want to talk about the timeline of her origin, the earliest concept art in the book of Kira is the picture of Kira and Sam Solo (as that's obviously what they look like in that picture). And yes, the art is placed on a timeline throughout the book in date order, showing the development of the project as it was happening.

 

My bad, I saw a passage attributed to the novelization and the way it was formatted was misleading imo, nor did the op clarify when I responded at the time. I should've pulled the novelization out then to check, but I didn't. I often use italics to indicate passages from the books, so the way this (below) was presented led me to read it as all from the book. Only the last little bit is. Sorry.

Ugh, in the original, "I don't believe Kylo was lying. Kylo was reading Rey's mind and saw her deepest fear." is not italicized. Nor is it on my screen so idk why it shows up like that in the quote. But that's what confused me.

 

So maybe Rey's related to Padme's family....like Padme's her great aunt on her mother's side or something? I mean my older sister looks like my aunt on my mom's side. So if Rey looks like Padme, it's because of her Naboo relatives....who were jerks and dumped her off on Jakku...n/m. That's just bad.

I just think the young Han Solo and the girl are early concepts of Jacen and Jaina...*grins*. Boom!

I mean the Skywalker's can't be the only powerful force users out there right? Right?

Either way, related or not, they need to wrap up a few dozen threads that are driving me crazy. Related, unrelated, etc, etc. Ugh.

Rey and Kylo start fighting on the Death Star and wake up Sheev who "Who disturbed my slumber!? Oh, it's you....the pitiful offspring of the offspring of my terrible apprentice. Hi granddaughter." He give a cheery wave.

Rey and Kylo look at each other and start attacking Sheev. Amazing what insults can do for motivation.

"Anyone popcorn? My old padawan?" Yoda holds out a bucket to Dooku, who's still headless.

"I can't eat that."

"Forgot did I." Yoda crackles and watches while the rest of the dead Sith and Jedi ghosts form a audience.

 

Regardless whether or not Rey is Palpatine's grand-daughter: I think Rey and Kylo fighting over the ruins of the Death Star allows Palpatine to rise and that is what stops their fight. Maybe them fighting is like a nuclear fission in the force that can be exploited by Palpatine?

 

I don't think "to Rey" is part of the equation in Maz's statement.

The statement is:
XYZ are never coming back but there's someone that still could. "Coming back" is the operative here, meaning they only need be gone. Luke fits that description just fine without having ever been in Rey's life.

 

Grammatically it means “to Rey.”

“XYZ are never coming back.”

It’s not “coming back to Jakku.” Because if it were, then Maz would not say “someone still could” - that would encourage Rey to remain on Jakku to await the one who “still could.”

It’s coming back “to Rey.” One cannot “come back to” someone or something that one was never with/at before.

As a verb phrase ellipses, “still could” refers to the same kind of “come back” as the prior line.

In other words, “Someone [Luke] still could [come back] [to Rey]” because grammar.

 

Obi-Wan had fathered Reys mom with a female mandalorian bounty hunter on tatooine. She took Reys mom to Mandalore where Reys mom conceived baby Rey with a force sensitive male. Her parents left her on Jakku as part of a rigorous spartan agoge. So Rey is a Kenobi-Mandalorian.

 

She,s half spartan lol

 

That is at least better than the Rey is a clone of Luke's hand theory.

 

It's not just because of grammar that Maz had to be talking about Rey. It would also make Maz an a-hole if she was literally saying, "whoever you're waiting for is never coming back for you, but take heart, Luke can still come back for 'the Resistance'" [read: 'a bunch of strangers to you'].

 

Interestingly enough, the "Luke?" bit isn't in the novel, which would seem to indicate it wasn't in the script ADF was working from. Was it added to clarify the scene?

"I need to get back.” Rey shook her head, as if the simple physical action might somehow clear everything from her memory.
Maz came closer. “Yes, Han told me that.” Her voice was gentle now, not at all the hard, sardonic tone she had employed up until this moment. “Whatever you’ve been waiting for—whomever—I can see it in your eyes, you’ve known it all along…they’re not coming back. But there’s someone who still could. With your help.”
Tears were beginning to trickle down Rey’s face. She’d had enough, of all of this. It was too much. “No,” she said simply.
“That lightsaber was Luke’s. And his father’s before him. It reached out to you. The belonging you seek is not behind you. It is ahead. I am no Jedi, but I know the Force. It moves through and surrounds every living thing. Close your eyes. Feel it. The light. It’s always been there. It will guide you. The saber. Take it.”

 

I'm bringing this back up from last night (which I realize with the speed this thread moves feels like days ago)...

I went through this morning and watched most of Rey and Kylo's interactions in TFA and TLJ with this in mind, and wow this idea actually elevates those scenes for me (which I honestly didn't believe was possible with how much I despise their interactions in TLJ). I know some who see romance and feel like this would make TLJ awkward to watch, but for me this suddenly makes TLJ less awkward. Lost siblings (even not quite understanding why) trying to reach across the galaxy to touch hands makes much more sense to me personally than trying to paint this as some kind of romantic or sexual scene. IDK, I guess I've never seen it as romantic so it is very easy for me to shift my view. I'll add to your list that I can see this having a profound affect on Luke, as he as the "Jedi" of the family might feel some responsibility for the loss of his niece.

Now - if I want to take this further into meta analysis - let's say this was the original intention since VII (using the theory that the trilogy actually has been planned out since the beginning). I can see this being a breaking point for Colin Trevorrow's script that he wasn't able to recover from after Carrie's death. If you were intending to have a Rey-Kylo sibling relationship revealed in IX, it's much much harder without Carrie there. You can redirect "here's why you should be redeemed" speeches to other characters, but you can't very easily write a sibling reveal around Carrie's absence.

So, even though I don't necessarily think it's going to happen, darn you for making me really want it!!