ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

she would have been on that island a long, long time. man this thread went downhill in a hurry

 

Yeah instead of a grouchy “Put a cowl on!” it would’ve been “OMG SCARRED 4 LIFE!!!”

Contrary to popular belief, most ladies don’t get hot n bothered at the sight of half-dressed male relations

 

master Luke you've been working out. You're a monstaaa

 

The engagement difference was set up prior to VIII actually.

Ben Solo told her she needed a teacher and that he wanted to be that person and wanted that saber she had. That was all at the end of VII and that was built off of.

She then approached Luke believing he would be the teacher and wanted to be and that he’d also want the saber.

He is of course none of those things initially to her so she re-assesses Ben Solo in large part because of the mind bridge presented as the Force itself connecting them and also because she’s seen aspects of him that aren’t cruel and listened to her insecurities and worries and calmly told her that she wasn’t alone in a moment of need. She naively believes, or is in denial of how bad he truly is, that she’s gotten through to him where nobody else has. And beyond her, who she doesn’t see as a hero in this story, he’s the secondary star option to Luke as someone who “may come back.” As General Leia’s Son, and someone Han was willing to die to try and bring back, and someone who has Luke in a dark place, the idea that the purpose and questions she’s sought answers to might be connected to Ben Solo is not that strange considering the last 36 hours she’s had. Even if she didn’t find him interesting on some sexual level — and I think she does — the fact that she was brought into this adventure and is now being connected to him by the Force itself after she entered his mind and fought him would probably confuse a 19 year old. She extends the offer for Luke to be the hero instead and he declines and her desperation and the huge win it would be for the many, and the mystery box of the situation and her attraction, and the vision all lead her to believe that everything she thought she was meant to do with Luke may actually apply to Ben instead. That he may me the one to take the saber and come back and teach.

She’s wrong. She grows up. She learns. She’s shown as using her powers finally to help others as a hero at the end. Kylo is shown as a villain. The will they or won’t they has been explored as not possible based on their wants.

And that’s where things are between them heading into IX.

 

I get all that. But can you point me to the scene where Anakin was charming? Can’t seem to find it...

 

well if you don't find him charming that's ok. But here are 5 times I found him charming/likable.
1. Jumping out of the ship chasing the bounty hunter. Its reckless but bad a**
2. Here's where the fun begins. Smiling in the face of danger.
3. carrying Obi Wan on his back.
4. His Attatchment is forbidden speech to Padme. Delivered with a sly smile.
5. the banter he has with Obi wan. "all because of your training." The way he shyly looks down when Obi Wan tells him he's proud of him.

 

Apology accepted, Captain Needa.

 

Well there was certainly an element of human trafficking involved, and she was sold for drinking money, which means she's property of someone's else in whatever capacity. She was handed to Plutt clearly in TFA. Probably the New Republic outlawed slavery and that meant also on Jakku. Nima Outpost was once controlled by Nima the Hutt, the Hutts who practiced debt bondage and outright slavery, so its probably not all that outlandish that she was slave or something of an child laborer and indentured servant type at some point prior to meeting Finn and the events of the film. Niima the Hutt also kidnapped orphans on Jakku and traded them for Rax's Imperial supplied weapons.

Unkar is like a less developed and malevolent version of Watto or Fagin from Oliver Twist.

Rey states the fact that Unkar controls everything in Niima,

How can the Blobfish get away with this? Because he controls everything in Niima—including the muscle. That's the way it's always been going back to Niima the Hutt, who was the first to put a beacon in the desert. Niima ran Jakku until a bounty hunter shot her down. Since then, the Blobfish has operated on the same principle of might makes right."
―Rey, on Unkar Plutt[src]
Like Anakin did with Watto or Han did for Lady Proxima, she worked for Unkar during her youth before striking out on her own. But she was a type of laborer that worked in exhange for food and shelter and all of those kinda things.

With Rey, her storyline is supposed to mirror Luke's, Anakin's and even the flat out orphan Han's(from SOLO).

 

The problem with Rey "re-assesing" Kylo is she has no legitimate reason to. The plot tells her to even though it makes no sense since TLJ takes place hours after TFA. Kylo seriously injured Finn and killed Han Solo. All of a sudden Rey is gonna trust Kylo because Luke is a grumpy old man?

 

I don’t at all disagree that it was Rey’s choice to deliver herself to Kylo, and therefore, she had agency. What’s problematic is not that she doesn’t have agency. It’s that she uses that agency to deliver herself to a person and an organization that is likely to strip her of that agency, given that they did exactly that just a day or so ago. And her motivation for doing so is some inexplicable faith in the man who deprived her of her agency (by knocking her out and torturing her), which includes an inexplicable faith that this man is the future savior of the galaxy.

I can’t help but view that as a character regression born of outdated chauvinistic thinking, whether RJ intended it or not. Not to mention that it just doesn’t ring true to her character, from where I sit.

Wow, thanks. Don’t know how I missed it. That kid could charm the pants off a gundark!

 

admittedly Hayden's acting was much better in ROTS.

 

It makes more sense to re-assess for possible value if you’re desperately trying to end a war, have had the Force itself connect you to this man repeatedly, who has slowly began listening to you and your concerns and reached out to you and told you that you aren’t alone, who wants the saber Maz told you to take, and who told you that someone would come back if you did, and who’s the son of the general of the side you’re on, and who Han cared enough about to try and bring back, and you’ve had a vision of the future of Snoke cut in half and the moment of my avatar appears in your mind and you’re mislead into believing that you and him teaming up means he’s changed. Otherwise I agree there’s no reasons for her to take the gambit.

She knows what he’s done. What interests her more is if he can be the hero she believed she was meant to bring back initially. Until she realized that hero could be her.

 

Undoubtedly. But I think “charming” is a bit of an overstatement.

 

Most of my female friends think Hayden is very attractive. That helps. I found him very likeable in the first half of ROTS.

 

All of this just makes Rey dumb. Someone injures your friend; kills your "mentor" and you're just going to turn a blind eye?

If these visions of Kylo turning to the light were so compelling to Rey, then why didn't Johnson SHOW the audience this? As it stands in the film it's just a poorly written plot device to make Rey go to Kylo.

 

The FBI, CIA and local law enforcement cut deals with bad people all the time if they feel that their cooperation will be more beneficial. Enemies of the state. Killers. Terrorists.

Rey approaches it from the same guiding principles that drive those kinds of decisions. She lays it out to Luke and hands him the saber one final time. She would prefer he be the hero she wanted and come back. He doesn’t want to in that moment. So she goes to plan B.

 

So you're saying Rey is gonna cut a deal with Kylo because the FBI in real life would? What exactly are Rey 's guiding principles?

 

right after Kylo killed someone she really cared about and maimed someone else. Comon man.

 

I can’t wait for TROS to come out just so this subject can be dropped one way or another. It is tiring lol.

 

She tells Luke “This could be how we win.” She tells him that she knows that if she goes to him he will turn.

The moment the last guard drops she reminds him the FO are shooting at the Resistance and tells him to stop that. That’s been her focus the whole time.

She risked her life on this gambit to try and help her friends.

 

what she said

 

She's been hurt and betrayed by Kylo in two movies. Rey should kill him the first chance she gets. Teaming up with Kylo again in TROS would be ridiculous and laughable.

 

I understand. But there’s absolutely zero setup for why Rey would consider Kylo to be Plan B if Luke doesn’t cooperate. The much safer bet, now that she split a mountainside open, is to just go back and help herself. Without the weird Kylo detour. Where does this idea that Kylo can save the galaxy from the First Order come from, and why wasn’t time spent on that subject in the film? Prior to her departure to see Kylo? If your FBI/ CIA/ local law enforcement example is to hold up, wouldn’t there need to be some explanation offered as to why this person is susceptible to cooperation, why them possibly cooperating is worth risking one’s life for, and what the alternative options are? If it’s that consequential a story and character point, you’d think some more time would be spent setting it up...

It’s simply super-thin storytelling, and not in an efficient, minimalist way. Just in a “there are hugely important things missing here” way.

 

Maybe they were trying to mirror Luke trying to save his friends/confront Vader storyline. Luke also failed, but that was completely different. Luke's friends were in mortal danger, being held captive, including the "other" that Yoda and Obi Wan seemed to think was so important. (Leia)