Satanism: Theistic, Atheistic, and other forms. [Discussion]

I'm not sure I follow how believing in the Satan of the Bible would make you a Christian, since that doesn't necessarily require accepting the Bible in full, I would think.

 

Sounds like Dany subscribes to this particular variation:
Pseudo-Satanism
Casual or adolescent satanism
In this context, adolescents use satanic symbols like the inverted pentagram, the trappings of the black mass, or demonic imagery to provide the impression of satanism.[15] This is a liminal experience, reserved primarily for shock value, and does not necessarily imply actual interest, or even belief, in the rites, symbolism, and philosophies of the various forms of Satanist religious practice cited above

It goes well with the stated job title.

Anyway, Dany, I'm sure you know that this is ain't Senate reasoning:

 

Funniest warning ever.

 

once again, hold the posts. I want to try to work on replies to some of you...

 

But, wow, it really looks like you guys have covered allot. I?m trying to figure out where to continue, and who to respond to?I think everyone?s been responded too with reasonable answers. SLG and DMS put it very well.

It doesn?t. Again, I am searching. I feel drawn to theistic because I feel there is a god (me and DorkmanScott already discussed these ?feelings? if you will). With that said, I do believe the bible misrepresents Satan (Lucifer) as a whole. Just because the bible says one thing about Satan, doesn?t mean its true.
Than there is an atheistic side of me which believes there is no god at all (I know this doesn?t hold up very well, but you have to understand what its like to be searching.) Its an awkward and vulnerable state to be in.

I know what your saying, but that?s where I have this dilemma. It seems I believe both forms in some way, yet one contradicts the other.

First let me say I am insulted. It is foolish to even say that when you dont even know me personally. I have never worn a pentagram in my life, or ever brought up the subject of Satanism to anyone I know. This site is the first place I bring it up. If that correctly describes me, than I would not have started such a thread, my posts would that of "I worship Satan whiel siting in a dark room...I light candles and pray for my friends to die. I hope your afraid!" who do you think I'm trying to 'shock'? And this judgmental comment is coming from someone with a Bible verse in their sig?
the 'goths' and teens that think people are all 'Oh look at that guy, hes bad *** for sporting a pentagram' they give Satanists a bad name. But most people, especially musicians, use Satanic imagery for 'shock-value', which, in this day in age, doesn?t really work anymore.
And I know I believe I was just born with it, the feeling that there is a divine power, a belief that dwells in my very soul isn?t reasoning, its just stating my personal feelings, I'm not much for debates, rather casual conversation.

 

I?m going to be heading out pretty soon, so don?t get too involved in conversation

 

Going back to Dani's responses on page 1:

It's not confusing the matter, it is just a form of Satanism, a symbolic form. It is a form of a religion like Catholic or Mormon to Christianity. Though, yes of course they are very different if you dig deeper, but I think you see what I am saying.

I definately think it's confusing becuase you have to explain this to someone. Not becuase they're stupid, but becuase the Satanists have deliberately chosen something to get attention and so cause confusion. An Athiestic philisophy that uses Satan as is main symbol is not greeting people -- whether they be religious or unaffiliated Athiests -- at face value. It's saying "I'm a Satanist, oh wait I'm not. Haha, you jumped ot the conclusion I actually worshipped SATAN. Silly you."

Let me use KK as an example by way of something KK would never do. Let's say I'm minding my own business in my home and KK bashes down my door declaring death to all Athiests and thier Satanic beliefs. And before he strikes me down I get to ask: "well, what makes you think I worship Satan"?

And he says well, there's this LaVey guy who has this entire Athiestic philosophy rooted in Satan. Therefore Athiests are Satanist.

Now this Kimball Kinnison character who is nothing like Kimball Kinnison might be guilty of many things at this point... invasion of home, bad logic, failure to question what he decries... but none of that excuses the fact that KK got confused by something that is intentionally confusing. There's always going to be silly people in the world: why the heck is LaVey giving them ammo? Now for the sake of his "symbol" I'VE got to explain it to people. Actually scratch that, I have to read up on it and then explain it to these people to disassociate myself with it, something I have no interest in to begin with. More work for me to prevent this sort of thing. Screw that, LaVey.


True. But that is what those specific followers of Satan believe. They worship him, regardless of what the bible says. I can see how you'd think the believers in this form of Satanism are 'the most very desperate or the most mentally ill', it seems like just joining in on a battle their god (Satan) will ultimately lose. But some people have a passion for 'evil' so to speak.

Er, really? Have you met these people? Remember on this point we're not talking about LaVey Satanists, but actual worshippers of that entity, I don't get that at all. I've never met a Satanist and I've rarely seen one on television. By merely naming thier chosen diety/whathaveyou Satan, they are ALREADY conferring power to the original religion by letting it define them. They are by implication acknowledging the Bible as true and that Satan is evil. Great, but don't they know that God is not Zeus? God is not the Zorastrian "Good God" pitted against an evil god. Arguing against the God of the Christian (and other) religions is like taking a stand against gravity. You're just wrong. And you are by implication admitting you are wrong in your chosen symbol.

If Satan isn't a such a dead end, then why are you even calling him Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub or any other name normally linked to that diety? It might be the same entity but it isn't the same identity of the diety you believe in. If you believe the Bible is enemy propoganda, why are you using the name from said propoganda? Do Americans refer to themselves as "Capitalist pig-dogs" as might have once been written in Communist propoganda decades ago? No.


LaVey's Satanism is more in depth and religious than the basic belief of Atheism. Atheism (correct me if I am wrong) is the belief that there is no god, that after you die, it is just like a candle going out (I forget who on here gave me that analogy). LaVey?s Satanism goes deeper than that, and is ?religious?, due to the fact that is has many more beliefs added on to regular Atheism

Good for LaVey. So why does he have to call it Satanism. Don't get me worng it's a free country and he can do what he wants. But Athiesm has it bad enough already.

 

I'm writing a reply Gonk

 

Did you read the prior posts? You should.

I mean you just cannot blame an entire faith for the name of their religion, when their faith has existed for a very long time but transformed dramatically in that time period. Of course the very earliest forms of Satanism were inspired by Christianity. That's logical. So of course it will be called Satanism. This is a religion that is practiced seriously by a surprising amount of people nowadays, I think it should deserve a bit more respect like other faiths. If you're confused by a faith and feel that they're doing it out of superiority, then I suggest you google a bit about it. Actually a lot about it, because this one is really complicated since there's so many dramatically different ways of practicing it.




As far as the earlier comments regarding hedonism and self-worship - yes, hedonism is a big factor in it. Well, it CAN be a big factor. Obviously there are different extremes that people can take self-worship. Some get more comfort out of not being a total hedonist. Some do it completely all the way. Self-worship is more of on the side of self respect and not just self indulgence, as self indulgence can sometimes lead to feelings like guilt or whatnot which are negative and therefore contradict the purpose.

 

I definately think it's confusing becuase you have to explain this to someone. Not becuase they're stupid, but becuase the Satanists have deliberately chosen something to get attention and so cause confusion. An Athiestic philisophy that uses Satan as is main symbol is not greeting people -- whether they be religious or unaffiliated Athiests -- at face value. It's saying "I'm a Satanist, oh wait I'm not. Haha, you jumped ot the conclusion I actually worshipped SATAN. Silly you."


Let me use KK as an example by way of something KK would never do. Let's say I'm minding my own business in my home and KK bashes down my door declaring death to all Athiests and thier Satanic beliefs. And before he strikes me down I get to ask: "well, what makes you think I worship Satan"?

And he says well, there's this LaVey guy who has this entire Athiestic philosophy rooted in Satan. Therefore Athiests are Satanist.

Now this Kimball Kinnison character who is nothing like Kimball Kinnison might be guilty of many things at this point... invasion of home, bad logic, failure to question what he decries... but none of that excuses the fact that KK got confused by something that is intentionally confusing. There's always going to be silly people in the world: why the heck is LaVey giving them ammo? Now for the sake of his "symbol" I'VE got to explain it to people. Actually scratch that, I have to read up on it and then explain it to these people to disassociate myself with it, something I have no interest in to begin with. More work for me to prevent this sort of thing. Screw that, LaVey.


You see, the only thing that your average atheist and an atheistic Satanist have in comment is that neither of them believe that there is a god. That?s it. Atheistic Satanism stands apart from that because it has a number of beliefs and viewpoints that are not shared with your average atheist, such as individualism. Just a note: It would also be helpful to read up about Anton LaVey on wiki as well.

Ok, now that we are on the subject of atheistic Satanism, I will talk a bit about LaVey. LaVey?s Satanism is called ?Satanism? for a reason. When you think of individualism, and everything it stands for in atheistic Satanism, what comes to mind? ?Pride?. Now Atheistic Satanism has obvious roots in Theistic Satanism and the Satan of the holy bible. According to the bible, Lucifer fell from heaven due to his pride, his ?self-worship? so to speak. He felt it was all about him, and he wanted to be as loved and praised of God. As the story goes, God cast him out of heaven due to this. Now...how I see it, LaVay took that and used it as a symbolic way of representing his religion, in a way defying the opposite of Lucifer. That instead of a higher power telling you what is and what isn?t, what should and what shouldn?t be, you create your own rules. You do whatever you feel, there is no right or wrong as long as you are satisfied. Now LaVey was an atheist, therefore just because he was educated on matters of the bible, doesn?t mean he believed what he was reading to be fact. Now to be honest, if you want an answer as to why he called his religion Satanism as apposed to anything else?I honestly cant answer that. It could be for a multitude of reasons. If I had to give an opinion as an answer, it would be, that the name Satan holds more symbolic meaning to Satanists because it was his name after he fell from heaven, after he was out of God?s control. He was no longer an angel who?s sole purpose was to glorify god. Here is a wiki paragraph: ?Luciferianism is identified by some people as an auxiliary of Satanism, due to the popular identification in some novels of Lucifer with Satan. Some Luciferians accept this identification or consider Lucifer as the light bearer aspect of Satan. Others reject it, arguing that Lucifer is a more positive ideal than Satan.? His reasons are unknown to me. You cant say he chose to call the religion Satanism just because that term, or Theistic Satanism was popular at that time, just to get attention. If it co

 

He has a stack of grading to do, so he's staying out of this one.

[image=http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs029.snc1/4293_1058210663534_1473925694_30174278_3224440_n.jpg]

 

That's what I was thinking.

Honestly I don't have a problem with theistic Satanism, since I don't consider it inherently more or less valid than any other invisible sky wizard cult. I find it akin to worshipping, say, Loki or Set in a neopolytheism context. So unless a random theistic Satanist is trying to get me to convert (Can you imagine that conversation? "Hello, I've come to talk to you today about the Kingdom of Hell.") I could care less.

As for atheistic Satanism, I always thought LaVey was a pretty cool guy, eh uses satanic imagery for shock value and doesn't afraid of anything. Yeah, the philosophy and approach to life differ from my own at several key points and it's got quite a bit more theatrics to it than I like, but whatever.

Lastly, pseudo-Satanism is awesome. It's responsible for a not insignificant amount of my favorite music.

 

Actual question to those who know more about this than me: What does Levay's Satanism have to do with the mythic being called Satan?

 

Not a lot, actually. Consider him more to be like...a character or symbol.

 

Possibly something like this

 

Not that extreme, I don't think. It's possible with some. Although at the end he does say "I?m amazed at the number of people who seem to think I?m a Satanist. If you are a Satanist, please don?t write to me in support. I find Satanism even more silly than Christianity. The former includes most of the irrational beliefs of the latter, but adds an adolescent need to rebel or shock."

I tend to disagree with the last sentence, as almost every religion has a bit of rebellion and shock in it in one form or another - it's easier to peg on Satanism because of it's relation/non-relation to Christianity. But, the essay is a good covering of some of the values of Satanism regardless of his own faith.

 

Finally, a Satanism thread.

I had a mentally imbalanced friend who became convinced her church had become a front for a Satanic death cult. That was many years ago, and Satanic death cults are not as trendy as they once were.

 

Great link VadersLaMent

Totally agree. And Satanism is probably the easiest religion (Theistic or Atheistic) to take lightly and regard it as nothing but shock value, due to its origins and imagery. That?s kind of, well?for lack of a better term, judging a book by its cover.
Also, though that write up wasn?t about Atheistic Satanism specifically, it does hold some of the same basic viewpoints.