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Ahsoka Shin Hati

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by Kato Sai, Apr 8, 2023.

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  1. The Togruta Jedi

    The Togruta Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 22, 2020
    I’ll allow it.
     
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  2. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Aug 19, 2003
    There are more Dadmin Jokes where that came from.
     
  3. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 20, 2018
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. CampOfSorgan

    CampOfSorgan 5x Hangman Winner star 5 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 27, 2020
    This pic goes hard
     
  5. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Feel free to screenshot
     
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  6. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 20, 2018
    A simple right click and Save Image As also works =)
     
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  7. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    (Moved from the Marrok thread)
    Shin feels like she’s a bit emotionally stunted in a child-like way, wanting Baylan’s approval like a very young kid. She’s not intentionally cruel or malicious, and outside of combat, she acts like a dutiful daughter, and even a little naive.

    They get a lot of mileage out of her eyes going wide at times - and I hope it’s for establishing that she really is having a complex, emotional and psychological reaction to the events around her, and not either a) trying to rely on her looking good to gain sympathy, or b) trying to head-fake us because of her looking good.

    It is important to keep in mind that in combat, she is utterly unrelenting and unflinching - and I’m fairly certain she would murder the crud out of anyone Baylan told her to without a second thought, whether they were men women, or children. And she *does* toy with Sabine a bit, and seem to enjoy the fight a bit… though you don’t have to want to hurt someone to enjoy a challenge, and I think that’s what they’re going for against Sabine. She doesn’t want to hurt her, doesn’t care if she gets hurt or killed, and is there mostly to make “dad” happy.
     
  8. The Togruta Jedi

    The Togruta Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 22, 2020
    These are great observations. I do believe she is his daughter. He’s probably (50-55) she’s probably (20-25) she has a very Maul-seque combat style (and some visuals that support it as well) I really hope we get more about her background in snippets in the series
     
  9. Ghost Ryder

    Ghost Ryder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 16, 2016
    Someone speculated in the comments that, in Sabine's case, there could be some lingering effect from the Nightsister-spirit possession on Dathomir. I'm definitely not convinced of it, but it's kind of interesting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2023
  10. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

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    Apr 6, 2018
    Good points. Though I think there’s one additional dimension to it, as illustrated by Baylan’s comment at the end of episode two, about it being a shame to kill a Jedi. I think Shin may have inherited this sentiment, and is essentially reluctant to kill a Jedi (in this case, Sabine). Whereas she cuts down non-Jedi Republic officers with absolutely no remorse or hesitation. Perhaps Baylan blames the Republic for the demise of the Jedi, and has transmitted that to Shin? We’ll see. In any event, I suspect that Baylan and Shin will prefer recruiting Jedi to killing them.
     
  11. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 20, 2018
    I would also add, even though it may have been mentioned before, that her Jedi Padawan braid is definitely not random, and has a meaning, even if it's as simple as a nostalgic addition suggested by Baylan.
     
  12. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Her braid is the greatest physical evidence of Baylan having made some new creed of his own that still heavily relies on Jedi teaching nevertheless.

    This might tie into how I think Shin seems a little bit like she’s hungry for Baylan’s approval as her primary motivation, but still seems emotionally disassociated from the actions they take. Baylan doesn’t seem to use passionate and powerful emotions for the Force much, even though the dark side’s impact is evidenced by his lightsaber and his actions. I think he may genuinely be the “so detached from other people” type of dark sider that he doesn’t really have grudges or many emotional moments at all; a sort of platonic ideal of Sith-style selfishness and Jedi calm that mostly just uses the Force like a Jedi, only occasionally allowing bitterness or trauma to creep through for evil.

    Baylan doesn’t seem to regard the Republic with any emotion, hate to otherwise; it’s only the “we are no Jedi” moment that gets any sort of emotional moment when they assault the cruiser, and it’s more like being mildly insulted than anything else. He also has an ex-Inquisitor as a vocally trusted associate even though they were the ones who hunted down the Jedi and who he likely had to evade; he’s likely so good at blending cynicism and calm that he could just let bygones be bygones with Marrok.

    But that also means that it’s likely the only real way for Shin to connect with him is through the formalized pseudo-Jedi training he gives, with all its detachment twisted far beyond the warmth that Jedi Master/Apprentice relationships have. Plus, y’know… the murdering people as mercenaries thing is different from being taught to defend yourself and others while helping the Galaxy.

    Shin doesn’t seem like she’s got the professional disregard for others Baylan has, but the only way to get the attention and warmth she needs is to kill people he points her at… and that disconnect forms her wide-eyed, still cold but not resigned emotions she has.
     
  13. The Togruta Jedi

    The Togruta Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 22, 2020
    The braid to me speaks to the structure and discipline that Baylan possibly cannot let go; giving the braid could be a reward system for Shin; a way of emotional and physical affirmation. Something for both of them to reach together, (the advancement of Shin through training) but the braid is a bit ominous .

    Would you say she looking for affection for her acts, by doing this it’s a way for her to belong, and feel wanted; something possibly she never has really had before ~ she also to me seems like she’s unhinged and could turn on Baylan if it meant her survival.
     
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  14. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 7, 2016
    So attachment. She is a character twisted by her desire to please her attachment.
     
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  15. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Yup… though considering how many Jedi could have healthy Master-Apprentice relationships, the emotional relationship desired isn’t the problem as much as the shape and form it has taken. Jedi still do compassion and empathy, after all, and any learning relationship will involve nurturing, with Jedi teaching simply requiring maturing to a point of being able to accept death, loss, and separation. They do not, in contrast, require becoming a professional killer, or learning to dehumanize your opponents into mere targets and impediments as part of a quid-pro-quo as Baylan clearly requires for their work as mercenaries, nor desperation from the Galaxy as a whole, as is likely the case for them to remain in hiding.

    …And ultimately, this *is* still the fictional world created by the writers here, who I’ve always argued tend to just not follow any consistent pattern of portraying emotional relationship as bad or good unless it fits the particular characters they have or the story they wish to tell.

    If the writer wants a Master and Apprentice relationship to be a healthy paternal or fraternal one, we know it will be, and if they want someone to seem so emotionally detached from others they become killers, they will be; whether they really follow the stated interpretation of the no attachments idea or not is wholly arbitrary at that point, as it always has been in Star Wars.
     
  16. Foreign32567

    Foreign32567 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 4, 2021
    Wonder if Shin's backstory is going to be revealed during the journey to the another galaxy - long time in hyperspace seems quite suitable for reminiscence.
     
  17. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    Yeah, I picked up on her braid last Thursday, I haven't seen anyone else pick up on it but I might've missed it.
    I don't want to go down the Grey Jedi route considering it's been dismissed a few times and Shin's grey outfit is slightly reminiscent of Assajj Ventress' early outfit. When Baylan says bringing Thrawn back brings power, could he mean power to create his own Jedi style order but one he sees as being everything the Jedi failed to be? In his order they still have their apprentice wear a hair braid, cutting off signifying they're no longer an apprentice? They're no Jedi but they seem to have a Jedi style master - apprentice relationship, may be because that is what Baylan knows.
     
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  18. Foreign32567

    Foreign32567 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 4, 2021
    Quite possible. Maybe it will be an adaptation of the EU Imperial Knights.
     
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  19. The Togruta Jedi

    The Togruta Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 22, 2020
    Many of us have picked up on that Shin Hati has a Padawan braid it’s literally been a big topic of discussion since Tuesday. @Django Fett
     
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  20. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Aug 19, 2003
    If by Tuesday you mean "the Tuesday after the very first image of her was released months ago" then this is accurate. It's been discussed since we learned what she looks like.

    As far back as at least 8 April, on the first page.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
  21. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 20, 2018
    Yeah, I picked it up on my first viewing, literally the first time you could see the braid. Along with the purrgil on the sky that Baylan saw a glimpse of. I was paying a lot of attention, because I was fully immersed and loving every moment. That's what happens when an episode has enough room to breathe and observe everything. AKA I comment Filoni and Stephanie Green for the fact that I noticed all the details upon first viewing, not myself :p
     
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  22. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 24, 2004
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Shin will say to Baylan, "At last we will reveal ourselves to the former Jedi Ahsoka Tano. At last we will have revenge."
    At which point Baylan will reply, "We've already revealed ourselves to Ahsoka Tano. And why do we want revenge?"
    Shin will then have a fantastic lightsaber battle with Ahsoka and Sabine. Unfortunately, Shin will be cut in half and thrown down a chute. The End (of Shin).
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2023
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  23. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 20, 2018
    She will then be renamed Torso Hati, as her shins at this point would be her mid-section
     
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  24. The Togruta Jedi

    The Togruta Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 22, 2020
    Prediction: Shin Hati survives this season with all her limbs intact and functional
     
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  25. ShinSkywalker

    ShinSkywalker Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Aug 23, 2023
    I think this is such an interesting reading of their scenes, while also being incredibly accurate. Filoni and the entire team are definitely going with a less is more approach with them, allowing the audience to consider what their potential backstories could be whilst giving hints in quiet moments and through actions. Whenever I view side characters I love, I always try to comprehend what thematic resonance they may have for the overall show. As much as I'd now love for this to be the Baylan and Shin show after their introduction, it's not. So I have to be realistic about what they're going to show of them and ask...what can they bring to Ahsoka's journey? To me, I think the Baylan/Shin dynamic is here not just to have an antagonising force for Ahsoka/Sabine, but also to compare and contrast. These four characters can't be classed as easily as we could Palpatine, or Obi-Wan Kenobi. They are all moreso overtly on a spectrum of light to dark. For instance, I don't think it's without storytelling purpose that Baylan uses the same 'no Jedi' line as she did in Rebels. That makes these discussions of good and evil far more intriguing.

    Like you said, Shin is seeking validation. I read her as a character who has been extremely emotionally stunted in some ways due to that dynamic with Baylan. Baylan has chosen a far more detached view of this world thanks to his experiences with the order throughout the war. Order 66 is likely something that intensely impacted him, an experience that Shin simply has not had. That's why I think she is so willing to ask questions of both her master and Elsbeth at the temple, she wants to know more. It's almost like she is trying to find her place in this, but can't grow past that need for validation from her master. A question I've been contemplating is what she would do if she was forced to be apart from Baylan for a longer stretch of time. Where Sabine has grown completely into her own human being apart from Ahsoka, Shin hasn't really been given any opportunity to spread her wings, and decide things for herself. Everything she knows about the Jedi for instance, is all through Baylan's teachings and his recollection of events.

    I think it's just such an interesting dynamic that Filoni has woven in such a short time.

    Honestly almost haven't stopped thinking about these two over the last five days, it's fun to be so immersed in Star Wars again and discuss things deeply because they're being portrayed so well, through showing and not telling. Great post! Love reading your thoughts about all three of these antagonists.