ST Snoke/Andy Serkis Discussion Thread

The TROS novelization, or at least what I could see of it in the Google Books preview, does seem to treat Snoke as a separate being. And it does so both from Palptine’s perspective and from Kylo’s after the other Snoke bodies are revealed.

There is one passage, corresponding to the moment in the film where Palpatine uses different voices, where it does seem like they are one and the same. Palpatine even says, “I have been your Master all along.” But this seems to be mainly a reference to his being the mastermind behind Snoke and behind Kylo’s dark-side training.

Because a few moments later, after Kylo sees the bodies, he wonders why Snoke had never told him about Exegol. And then, while he acknowledges that Palpatine created the First Order, he tells him that he won’t be his servant, the way that Snoke was. Palpatine then says that Snoke was nothing but a test, but he very explicitly treats him like a separate person.

Now, it’s possible that Kylo simply doesn’t get how connected Palpatine and Snoke truly were, and that Palpatine is playing along for simplicity’s sake. But this reads more like the author saying that Snoke was a servant that Palpatine created to allow him to manipulate things from a safe distance. A proxy and a puppet, but not literally.

How this fits with the implications from the comic books, that I don’t know. The easy answer is to say that it doesn’t. At this point, that wouldn’t surprise me. But cynicism aside, I do get the feeling that some of this does fit with JJ’s original ideas about Snoke, especially because the Exegol labs and his being a Frankenstein monster of sorts do fit very well with his design and with the Hammer Horror aesthetic that they wanted for him in TFA. How that connects to Palpatine, though, is where I think things get more tenuous. I’m fairly convinced that was improvised only late in the game, which explains why these pieces don’t quite fit together.

Perhaps the original set-up, if it existed, was much the same except without Palpatine actually being resurrected. There could’ve always been an Exegol, a cult dedicated to the Sith and bringing them back, and a dark-side abomination origin to Snoke. The early books sure seem to set that up too. But Palpatine’s resurrection itself feels like a later development.

 

Yep they need to answer this question. I guess I still lean to Snoke basically just being Palpatine still since we have the clones suggesting possibly the bodies don't last but a few years.

Is there anything in the comics or the new novel that suggests Snoke has memories other than things that would apply to Palpatine or post Ep 6?

 

There should not be this many questions about this stuff following the conclusion of the saga. I hate how this all ended and how we still don't firmly know what Snoke was, only theories.

 

Sure we do. Palpatine made snoke, even though he was dead with no power. Does it make sense? Nope, but that's the answer.

 

This is told from Snoke POV. It doesn't sound like Palpatine thinking his thoughts.

'He had learned that lesson when he was very young'. The scar was almost as old as he during development.

For Snoke, it seems, there was a continuity between his younger self and his TLJ self. Something happened long after the scar 'lesson' , then, and it happened to his old self. But it was not that way for him. He had learned the lesson and that was it. Then (at least 50 years before TLJ) he watched the empire rise. That is, he was being watched by the emperor back then. 'I made Snoke'

In Exegol, we see old Snoke - just as we see old palpatine. Cloning can't give you both youth and powers. Maybe Snoke was killed/kept alive (in the TROS novel Snoke-in-the-tank is described thus: 'his features were caught in a state of everlasting anguish'), the sith version of Leia under that blanket.

Maybe he was a sith project going back hundreds of years, or the indirect result of one, just like Anakin would be:
https://boards.theforce.net/threads/andy-serkis-snoke-in-episode-ix.50047273/page-42#post-56305215

 

Nothing says Snoke was "created" recently. He might have been reanimated somehow from a deceased Sith lord or something. Perhaps he studied the Force in an alien school before the phantom emperor took him under his wing so to speak.

 

So I guess we just aren't ever going to get an explanation as to why Palpatine couldn't simply use the Snoke clones as host bodies?

 

I’m guessing his own cloned body wasn’t initially so messed up. So if a healthy, compatible body gets wasted away to the state we see him in, I’m not sure he’d want to take on a body like Snoke’s, which seems in a bad state to begin with.

That’s not to say there isn’t room for exploration. Did Palpatine use more than one body? How long ago was Exegol settled? Was Exegol what Palpatine had been looking for in the Unknown Regions? Did the Sith Eternal exist apart from Palpatine or did they always serve him?

 

If he's desperate for a new body as the novel suggest—due to imminent death—then wouldn't the spare Snokes suffice as a stop gap? Why didn't Palpatine initiate the ritual with Kylo when they first met on Exegol? Surely Kylo would have been easier to deceive than Rey (and that's not even addressing the elephant in the room: why did Palpatine tell Rey he was going to possess her? Despite his weasel words, she puts two-and-two together fairly quickly).

 

This is all kind of silly, isn't it?

 

We know the story has evolved over the years, but the more I think about it, Snoke’s being created by Palpatine does work quite well as his immediate origin in the sequels. It explains how he essentially appeared out of nowhere. And because he serves Palpatine, it also explains why he was allowed to exist (or created in the first place). Additionally, he does look monstrous, so visually it’s works well too.

The big question is whether Snoke is a clone of anybody else. The teases we got over the years hinted at his being rather old. That could all have been a red herring, of course. But a more intriguing possibility, and one the publishing branch could realistically explore, is that his backstory does correspond to an original character who was cloned. In that respect, Snoke could be an adaptation of Joruus C’baoth from the EU.

But I can’t think of any existing characters from the prequel era that could have been cloned. Besides Plagueis, of course. Which, I hate to say, seems less unrealistic now that we know what JJ’s favorite scene from the prequels was. But maybe it’s more intriguing if the character was, like with C’baoth, not originally evil. Perhaps a Jedi from the newly introduced High Republic period? What would be most interesting?

 

Or a force singularity -and subsequent King/tyrant- from the past. I have this line of speculation about Scar from The Lion King being a Disney precedent for Snoke. Consider:

a)The scar, for Christ's sake.
b)Scar's rule turned the savannah into a wasteland. The wounded and evil ruler>the wounded and evil kingdom. That space station in the Kylo Ren comic, much liked by Snoke, with the vegetal kingdom rising in darkness killing its former occupants.
c)Scar is a variation of Claudius in Hamlet. Hamlet was the rightful heir to the throne and Claudius an usurper. That is, Claudius was the heir presumptive, and Hamlet the heir apparent. 'Heir apparent to Lord Vader', says Snoke. It's a very specific term when said by a dude with a scar in a Disney movie to a dark prince similar to the play a certain Disney movie was partially based on.
d) Snoke is not a variation of Claudius when it comes to guilt. Snoke feels none. But, this is the Lion King co-director talking about Scar:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-05-15-ca-57883-story.html

Same article:

And, of course:

(Also, now that I think of it, there's Koba in planet of the apes. Scar, evil guy, usurper, seducer of Cesar's kid, personal grudge)

 

That kind of suggests Palpatine to me and Snoke was just a body to use basically since Palpatine was stuck on that machine to stay alive. Hence the many clone Snokes as they wore out over the years.

 

Watching/listening to Last Jedi now and after seeing TROS a few times and the comic book teases, it's interesting to view Snoke's scenes as just Palpatine puppetting and speaking through him, adds a whole new layer.

 

Snoke's dialogue sounds more like Palpatine than Palpatine in TROS.

 

very Palpatine line from Snoke (which we have seen in canon in the comics that Palpy does talk through him) is "You have the spirit of a true Jedi! And for that, you must die."

 

Is he talking "through" him or feeding him lines? Just opening up a possibility for interpretation.

But I have to address another issue here.


What's up with Snoke and his golf hat in the comic?

I haven't read it but I've seen some panels.

 

I still say that the story works better if Snoke is an acolyte of Palpatine (metaphorical puppet) and not a flesh suit (literal puppet).

 

Yes but what about that hat?

 

Those robes and the hat are not explained. But he talks about the place. He's got a throne there.
The force and 'life'. It's a bit like Yoda in Dagobah, or like Luke's first lesson in TLJ. Some kind of nature-loving Charlie Manson.

By the way, Ben arrives there and says to him: 'Snoke, look what master Luke did to you'

 

I think the hat, and the whole outfit, is meant to make him look friendlier and less frightening. At this point in his life, Ben sees Snoke as a caring mentor who is not afraid of Ben’s dark side, whom he can trust, and who can teach him how to embrace his nature in ways that Luke could not.

Aesthetically, I think it makes him look more like a monk of sorts. We don’t know what he told Ben about his past, but he knows that Snoke is force-sensitive and has learned much about the Force over the years, and has much that he can teach him. So I think it makes sense for him to look like an ascetic non-Jedi holy man.

As for his relationship with Palpatine, I still think he was an independent servant rather than a puppet. But, like Kylo in TROS, he had Palpatine constantly in his head, guiding him as a part of him almost. Only for Snoke this would’ve been happening for decades. So who knows what effect that would have on his sense of self in respect to the thoughts that were his master’s.

But based on things said by the Age of Resistance comic book writer and by TROS writer Chris Terrio, Snoke might be fully controlled by Palpatine.

 

Yep Snoke blaming Luke and the rebels for his condition even though he is apparently just twisted clone bodies that were made I think leads to him just being Palpatine basically. No telling what lie he told Kylo about his body's condition. The book also talks out about their multiple failed attempts to get Palpatine a suitable body. Snoke was one of those failed attempts probably but at least gave him the ability to project himself to carry out his plans for periods of time. I mean Snoke was literally going to be a skeleton until a change at the very end.

 

Roll us yer cap Grandad

 

I dig the Golf hat, it's oddly perky. As for if Palpatine is speaking through him or feeding Snoke directly, not sure I can go either way, but I do quite like watching Last Jedi and basically thinking that Palpatine is speaking all of Snoke's lines on Exegol which adds some new twists and contexts to Snoke's dialogue.