So its safe to say that the Republic's downfall was Qui-Gon's fault?

Yes, clearly Qui Gon helped destroy the Jedi and the Republic.

Consider the opening lines of TPM when Obi was concerned about something else going on besides the TF problem and Qui Gon told him to shut up and ignore those feelings.

Qui Gon took Anakin off of Tatooine by using lies, theft, and cheating. He violated the Jedi Code and the Will of the Force. Anakin was not ready to go and the Will of the Force intended for Anakin to grow up before leaving Tatooine for training as a Jedi.

Qui Gon's rescue of Jar Jar is also an abomination. Jar Jar becomes a key instrument in elevating Palpy to Emperor.

As Lucas said, Qui Gon was wrong in what he did even though Anakin was in fact the Chosen One.

The funny thing is how Qui Gon lovers still miss the point of what Lucas was telling us about Qui Gon. The fact that Qui Gon was taking a short cut by misusing the Force and not listening to the Will of the Force, demonstrates that Qui Gon made mistakes that cost the Jedi and the Republic dearly.

 

I blame all the Jedi. Mace lets you know the Jedi feared that Palpatine was in fact the Sith Lord. Anakin should have been included in the plan and told what was going on. He went to Yoda to discuss his dreams and even went to the Council when he found out about Palpatine. Its the deception and mistrust of the Jedi in general more than it was Qui Gon or even the seduction of Palpatine by itself.

 

Anakin was the chosen one. He just made some B.A.D choises in his life.

 

I doubt Anakin was the chosen one. Its like the MEssiah Jesus. Everything came true to the prphecies. The chosen one prphecy was not fulfilled therefore he was not the chosen one. It was Qui Gon's **** up.

 

Sorry, he's the chosen one. He kills Sidious at the end of ROTJ, thus fulfilling the prophecy that he'll bring balance to the force. No Sith=Balance. Lucas says he's the chosen one, and that this is how balance works.

 

I defintely think Qui-Gon was an idiot in not recognising Anakin's dangerousness in the face of everyone else's better instincts...but by the timeof Ep III and Anakin's turn to the dark side, Palpatine is already so far along in his takeover plan that he'd have got there anyway, with or without Vader.

A lot of people were at fault. The Jedi had become too complacent and set in their ways. Even Yoda and Mace Windu are guilty of this; they seem to presume that they will necessarily prevail over the dark side because they have right on their side.

The prophesy was true, it just worked out very differently than anyone could have forseen. Although it's never stated on-screen, I'd like to bet that until the end of RotJ, both Yoda and Obi-Wan believed that Luke was in fact the Chosen One. Neither of them thought Vader was redeemable at first.

 

We don't know if Obi-wan and Yoda think that the Prophecy is still valid or not.

 

I would guess that since the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force isn't mentioned in the OT, it seems like they've given up. Something tells me with all the hope that is put into Luke Skywalker that Ben and Yoda believe Luke is the Chosen One because he's Anakin's offspring.

 

If your talking as to what event started the whole chain events. Then you need to go back to Lord Sidiou's birth. Or at the very least his manipulation to get a blockade of Naboo.

If your critizing the set up, what set up would you have then.

I don't think its perfect nor do I like 10 year old Annkin. But the damn story has to get started somehow.

 

So it begs to ask the question, would Anakin have become a Jedi/Sith without Qui-Gon? I doubt it.. If not for him he would have stayed a slave on Tattooine Darth Maul still would have been destroyed and the Emporer would have been knocked further down.

 

So its safe to say that the Republic's downfall was Qui-Gon's fault?

No.

 

WRONG. Quigon helped the Rebel Alliance eventually win. Even without Quigon and Anakin, Palpatine was already Chancellor and intending on dictatorship. Without Quigon, there'd be no Anakin and Luke -- and nobody to challenge or throw Palpatine down the shaft of the Death Star.

 

No, it's not Qui-Gon's fault alone. He was one of many that brought this path of the fall of the Republic about, but he's got a lot of company, including:

• Padme Amidala
• Jar Jar Binks
• Palpatine
• Mace Windu
• Yoda
• Obi-Wan Kenobi
• Shmi Skywalker
• Count Dooku
• The Entire Separatist Council
• Chancellor Vallorum
• and many others

 

Anakin had nothing to do with the formation of the Empire.

Anakin had nothing to do with Palpatine's rise to political power. Padme did. She was manipulated in TPM.

Jar Jar was a tool in AOTC. If he didnt do it, as someone else said, another senator would.

And in ROTS, it seems the entire Senate was supporting his decision to hunt the Jedi down.

If it were not for Qui-Gon, Anakin never would have been trained, and then Palps wouldnt have been stopped.

"Oh but what of the Temple Raid?" you may be asking.

As far as I know, all Anakin did was kill a couple of lame padawans and then the younglings. The Clones did the rest.

If Anakin was never in the picture, Dooku wouldnt have died at the beginning of ROTS and he would have led the Clones during the Raid. In fact, Obi would have died at the hands of Dooku in either AOTC or ROTS if not for Anakin, so yeah, Qui was eventually right.

Qui-Gon is right.

Nuff said.

 

I think there's more than enough blame to go around here. If you look at the story, you can take every major and minor character in the trilogy and assign him a small measure of blame.

Padme - tricked by Sids into booting Terrence Stamp.
Jar-Jar - tricked by Sids into granting him power to construct a military
Dooku - obvious
Palpatine - obvious
Anakin - obvious
Trade Federation/Separatists - obvious
Qui-Gon - I agree with someone who said in this thread that the boy's fate should not have been discussed in front of him. The Jedi are all big on keeping things secretive and vague, and then in the end when you triumph, you see this was their plan for you all along. But with Anakin they pile the "Chosen One" burden on him early and often.
Obi-Wan - was too young and inexperienced when he insisted on training the boy. To be fair, he did his best.
Sifo-Dyas - ordered the clone army which played right into Sids' hands.
The Council - distrustful and aloof. Granted, Sids was milking the boy, and they don't need to cater to a self-important punk, but they put Anakin's loyalties to the test every bit as much as Sids. And in their complacency, they totally got sucker-punched by Sids
The Senate - "Instead of announcing my candidacy for re-election, I am announcing that you are all... morons."

About the only one who you might say came out clean was Bail Organa. I can't think of anything for him.

On the other hand, a lot of these same people also laid the foundation for Anakin's redemption. Padme having the twins and saying there was still good in Anakin, Obi-Wan taking Luke out of Tattooine, Yoda training Luke, Qui-Gon communing with the Force to help the other Jedi, the ones that survived (in some fashion) helped see things through and fulfill the prophecy.

 

NO, he didnt misread it...he just far ahead of the suffering.

 

Mr_Mauul.

Give it a rest.
Buy a newspaper.
Watch some TV. Not the Sci-Fi channel!

You're thinking about SW too much. This question here proves it.
It's like: It's safe to say the Third Reich is Chamberlain's fault.

 

If Anakin was the chosen one, then regardless of Qui-gon finding him or not, he would have somehow Restored balance as the prophecy stated. Qui-Gon just introduced one path that Anakin would follow.

Who Knows, if Qui-gon didnt notice him, maybe Darth Maul would have while searching for the jedi on tatooine. He could have reported back to palps, and gone on from there!!!!

You never know

 

"I doubt Anakin was the chosen one. Its like the MEssiah Jesus. Everything came true to the prphecies. The chosen one prphecy was not fulfilled therefore he was not the chosen one. It was Qui Gon's **** up."


It was fulfilled..See, RotJ.

 

The downfall of the Republic is one person's fault - Anakin's. He was given the chance to fulfill the Prophecy in one fell swoop. It presented itself to him and opened right up yet he didn't even know it. He personally killed Dooku and had the lightsaber up to Sidious' neck. None of what transpired ever had to happen had he killed Sidious. Thankfully, the Prophecy gave Anakin one final chance and this time he recognized that this is what was happening.

 

You know, GL was trying to create a modern adventure myth.

Over speculating and placing ambiguous blames on various things can be fun, but it can kinda ruin the overall effect of the story.

Look at Norse Mythology. A collection of stories of heroes who fall into tragedy. No one wonders who's fault everything is. It doesn't matter.

The Republic's fall was going to happen no matter what. If anything, it was the Palpatine's fault. Or something like that.

Who's fault was it that Romeo and Juliet died? Or Julius Caesar? Who cares. That's the essence of tragedy- the key character is destined to fall no matter what.

It IS fun to think of what if's, though.

 

^^^^^

Yes, have you not seen Return of the jedi?

I could have sworn that Vader/Anakin kills the emperor,

unless GL has brought out a new special edition dvd???

 

The downfall of the Republic is one person's fault - Anakin's.

If we're placing blame, let's place it in the right place. Palpatine would have found anyone to use to aid in his takeover of the galaxy so the blame for it's fall is his and his alone. What you've done is incorrectly assume Anakin could have stopped Palpatine earlier than ROTJ.

 

Sorry, he's the chosen one. He kills Sidious at the end of ROTJ, thus fulfilling the prophecy that he'll bring balance to the force. No Sith=Balance. Lucas says he's the chosen one, and that this is how balance works.

Why does no Sith = balance?

I would have thought that the existence of the Sith would be a requirement of balance, if the Jedi are supposed to be "good". There would need to be something of the dark side in order to balance the light side.

 

Until we know exactly what the Sith are, its hard to speculate on what they contribute to the "balance".

Maybe the overconfidence and sterility of the Jedi Order caused the creation of the Sith.

Maybe Anakin COULD have been the chosen One as Qui Gon believed.

Maybe it is because of the Jedi Order that things went sour.

I don't think it was Qui Gon's fault. The entire jedi order seemed a bit iffy about Anakin actually being the "chosen one" since the very beginning.