TV Discussion SWTV Diversity Thread (Minor Spoilers Allowed)

I hope this is enough evidence for you.

http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-stormtroopers
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-imperial-officers
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-rise-of-an-empire
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-propaganda
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-spaceships-submarines-and-seismic-charges
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-the-meteor
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-the-cantina
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-comic-books
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-bars-cafes-and-cantinas
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-the-b-17-and-the-ghost
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-the-millennium-falcon
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-malevolence-and-bismarck
http://www.starwars.com/news/from-world-war-to-star-wars-pink-secret-weapons
http://www.starwars.com/news/the-cinema-behind-star-wars-the-guns-of-navarone
http://www.starwars.com/news/the-cinema-behind-star-wars-battle-of-the-bulge
http://www.starwars.com/news/where-a-long-time-ago-meets-a-galaxy-far-far-away-3

 

True.

 

While much of that is spot on I am sure [I only skipped around and read a few] a lot of it also is simply GL being inspired by the movies he was seeing and, let's face it, stealing plot threads and situations and narrative -- and even dialogue verbatim.

I saw very few quotes from GL himself that said things that were unmistakably "SW ____ = Nazi ___" I don't disagree that the similarities are abundant -- but a lot of it was just a writer about SW postulating direct connections to things that were more general in nature.

I mean, was the rise of the German Socialist Party the inspiration for the PT and Palpatine --- many say it was the U.S. itself post-9/11 with the Patriot Act etc.

I am not looking to argue with you -- but I just don't think even GL trying to Retcon the Jedi = Jews or The Empire = the SS etc is quite accurate.

I don't see that at all. Maybe the NU-Mandalorians -- but not the old. And the NU-Mandalorians ? I'd be hard-pressed to say Filoni, Hidalgo, Gilroy, Plunkett, etc are consciously trying to model the Mandoas after "space-Germans"

 

Satine's mandos are post WWII Germany who have realised that nothing good come out of their old militant ways and don't want to go back to them, they also practise Entartete Kunst. The Death Watch are the mandos who think war, conquest and killing is glorious and they should go back to that, like the Nazis after WWI. That all the mandos in TCW look like how Anglos stereotypical depict Germans could also be a factor to why I think of them as German/Northern European.

 

I can't really disagree with that.

 

What do you guys think about the possibility of Captain Rex being Nik Sant?

 

I was just going to bring this up in the thread since I have heard wispers of people thinking that putting Rex into Endor as Nik Saint is whitewashing his character. I dont really think thats the case though.

 

It's not like you see him for more then 5 seconds.

 

Actually, I've felt Rebels and all the recent "Canon" material has given the Clones a bit of a whitewash.

 

Mandalorian chapter 5 spoiler

Spoiler

Minor nitpick:
The characters well trained in martial arts tend too often to be Asian. This stereotypical characterization is unnecessary. Perhaps I'm overthinking this, but I was already very puzzled with Chirrut (I mean come on! You cast an Asian and you make him a sort of shaolin monk?), now the second character who appears to use actual stylish moves in a combat is Fennec. I really hope it doesn't become a trend.

 

Spoiler

Weren’t Dryden Vos and Q’ira also well-trained in seemingly Asian-style martial arts?

 

@Bor Mullet

Spoiler

less seemingly Asian than Chirrut and Fennec, I'd argue.

 

https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-bad-batch-whitewashing-lucasfilm

It's a challenge to be liberal and progressive these days, when people will go to such lengths for no reason at all.
Anyone who sees "whitewashing" in The Bad Batch should pay a visit to their eye doctor.

 

I think Hunter looks the most like Morrison. However I think they all do. It’s a bit sketch with Tech, but that might just be his face. Now Omega does look white at least to me. That’s assuming she is a full blown Jango clone. I get the concern for a long time in media the most famous Maori role was Jango Fett and the clones with that only being topped with Moana and Aquaman recently. So if anyone in that community has concerns over one of the most seen Maori “characters” I get that. I do. I don’t think it’s my place to comment on if something is white washed or not. I am white. So I’ll listen to what POC especially Maori have to say about it.


It’s also important to realize that Star Wars has very little representation. It has in the main movies
4 black men (speaking roles) Lando, Finn, Panaka that other guard of padme. Who I forgot his name. And Windu
1 black women (Jiana) or whatever her name was
1 All the clones which are played by 3 actors in the films and Jango
1 Asian character Rose

8 actors that aren’t white in Star Wars that have speaking lines in films. I don’t even want to count how many white characters have speaking lines.

In animation out of main characters I have no clue if their actors or white or not, but characters we have
Not including clones since that would take a while.
Kanan
Ezra
Sabine
3 characters from resistance who I didn’t know their names.

Live action we have
2 characters

so that equals 16 characters who are Asian, Maori, Hispanic, black I’ll edit this if I can think of more

Forgot rogue one
Saw
Cassian I think that’s it.

that brings us to 18 actors in speaking roles who either portray a person of color or are a person of color. Not including anyone who is playing an alien such as Jar Jar.

 

Since when does being white makes you lose eyesight and/or critical thinking?
Also, there are people in New Zealand that are whiter than me, and I am Caucasian.
Also, my skin was lighter when I was a kid and it got slightly darker when I got older. It happens.
Also, people that live in countries with extreme seasons, get a tan in the summer which can be dramatically darker than their skin color in the winter.
Also, Omega's complexion is not that white to begin with, she looks pretty Maori to me in terms of skin tone.
Also, not every "concern" that people have on the internet is valid, some of them are just non existent.

 

I don't quite understand this statement. Some people seem to place far too much emphasis on what political labels they identify with, rather than their principles. Terms like progressive, conservative, etc. mean wildly different things from one year, one country to the next.

The Bad Batch do look paler to me than the clones have previously, but one can be Māori and have a light complexion. Whether it's an issue or not is not something for me to decide or dismiss. If it isn't an issue that affects you personally, why get up in arms?

Contribute to the conversation, don't just complain that the conversation is taking place.

 

Because if people of color are seeing something I am not seeing I will listen to them. I am not gonna listen to some youtubers who have titles like SJW’s strike again or something. I have seen 1 article talk about the bad batch being white washed. I have seen countless clickbait videos talking about this.

Maybe the bad batch is white washed maybe it isn’t. It’s not my place to say since I am white so I can’t speak to what POC are seeing or doing or whatever. I can only listen to them and support them.

the black series figures look a lot more like Jango Fett than the animated characters. So maybe it’s a problem with animation.

 

There's been a few examples of genuine criticisms being blown out of proportion (e.g. Grogu eating the eggs), where maybe a dozen people making observations are presented as an unthinking horde being outraged over something trivial. There's far more comments saying "can you believe people are complaining about this?" than there are actual complaints, and they're almost always misrepresented.

This thread serves no purpose if there's no one here to actually present the "Bad Batch is whitewashed" side of the discussion. It's the blind leading the blind.

 

I actually don't identify with any labels, because I strongly dislike labels in general. But if I were to find a way to communicate about where I stand, I would say that I mostly agree with a liberal and progressive ideology, outside of any political party or affiliation. And this is how I used the words. After all, the words still have the original meaning, even if a lot of people these days cannot see the difference between the words themselves and an entire ideology with certain rules they feel they need to agree or disagree with.

Since when do I have to accept blind censorship if I express an opinion, and on top of that, that censorship would be based on the color of my skin? And since when is it right to not speak for others and for various political and social issues? In this specific instance, I see an attack towards the creators of The Bad Batch, and to say the opposite would be to lie. In my opinion, this attack is unwarranted, unsolicited, over the top, and fabricated. It's not that difficult these days for people to decide in 1 nanosecond that someone who happened to "whitewash" something is also racist, sexist and all the -ist. It happens all the time. So my opinion is that I don't particularly like all this endless labeling and putting people in boxes, because that leads all the hotheads into assumptions about other people that are simply not true, very often.

I choose to contribute to the conversation by criticizing the completely over the top critique that I stumbled upon, on the link I posted. There can always be a conversation. It's just a very poor taste conversation when it's done with malice, which is exactly what's happening here in my opinion.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this assessment. If I complain about the lack of representation of my ethnicity and culture in The Bad Batch or Star Wars in general will you hear me out too and 100% respect everything that I say? Even I fabricate certain statements just so that I can complain and cause a problem when there's none?

 

I think this is overblown. I don’t think a whole lot of the POC Star Wars fans think this is white washed. I think youtubers are blowing it out of proportion. As I said maybe it is maybe it isn’t. I do think Omega is white and if she is a full blown Jango clone that’s a problem. The rest I have already stated my opinion on. They look enough like Jango except for Tech. So anytime I see a Star Wars video about how blank or blank is doing blank I laugh. Because it means it’s almost certainly not happening,

 

That's a bit silly. Criticism is not an attack, it's an attempt to improve something. I'm sure the creators are open-minded enough to accept when they may have made a mistake, especially one so easy to fix. It's an important discussion to have, and doesn't have a pre-determined outcome just by having it.

Your reaction is over-the-top. Dissenting opinions are not a form of censorship, quite the opposite. If you want to engage with this criticism, you would be better off doing so with those who are actually making it, and/or are actually Māori. Instead, all that is being shared is generalisations, accusations, and assumptions.

Quite often. Knowing when not to say something is an important skill as well. I won't speak for others if they are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves. In this case, I don't think Lucasfilm needs us to "defend" it.

 

Look at it this way. I have never seen anyone. White or a person of color complain about Dee Bradley Baker playing a Maori character. People just want characters to look the way they are supposed to. So my real problem here is if Omega is a Jango clone then she is whitewashed. However the rest look enough like him. Except maybe Tech and that might just be the animation. Also the article confirmed that Lucasfilm is already looking into this or saying they have thought about it or something along those lines. I’ll try to find the article.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/star-wars-bad-batch-whitewashing-lucasfilm/amp/

Here it is. So whatever will happen is already in motion. This article did remind me. Kanan is definitely white in the bad batch but is definitely not in Rebels. But again. What’s done is done and Lucasfilm is already looking into it. So this issue is pretty much out of fan hands by now

 

So they are responding promptly and maturely, cool.

 

It's really not. I am making a post at a Star Wars forum. You are reading too much in my post. You know nothing about me and my reaction.

They are not though. That's the point and the problem. White people will always feel they can complain and criticize other white people for whitewashing, without actually asking the POC what they think about it and if they are offended. The article I posted was written by a white person. And I was criticizing the article.

Yes, it is. From you.

Right. You do you. I don't comply to your code of ethics. So I think I can post about this if I want to talk about it.

Omega is female. Surely if you can manipulate Jango's DNA to change the sex, you can change the skin color, or it can be a random mutation or an unwanted side effect of manupilating the DNA, or 1000 different other things. To me she does not look white regardless of whose clone she is anyway. There is no whitewashing. Unless whitewashing means "I wish for this character to not be white, but to me she seems white, so it must be whitewashing"

Lucasfilms and every other company will do whatever needs to be done to protect their products, satisfy their customers and present to the world a good PR image. I would be shocked if LFL did NOT address this to be honest. That doesn't mean that I have to think the criticism is valid. Whoever started that hashtag on Twitter is definitely someone I don't agree with.

He looks pretty Caucasian in both. Voiced by a white guy.

It was never in the hands of fans (well maybe it got in the hands of fans who discovered something to complain about), it was a non-issue anyway if you ask me.