TV Discussion TCW - Harbinger of the "Great SW Fan Purge" ? [possible spoilers]

Well, that explains it: you simply have bad in animation, and therefore there is nothing more I can do for you. If you think that Clone Wars looks fluid and life like, you need to sit yourself down and watch A LOT of Disney and Pixar movies.

 

Again different genre, You are judging a half hour animated tv show by a two hour 25+ million dollar budget standard of course it isn't going to hold up. Also for a start-up division of LFL in singapore it is by far better then anything Nickalodean, CW or Disney is putting on the small screen. This is not a big budget two hour hollywood movie. It was three half hour eposide put together and shown on a movie theater screen. I have seen it three times and the motion is on par with most video games and yes it would be on par with Pixar if they spent 25-30 million just on character modeling. You seem to be holding it up to a huge standard but then throw the GT mini-series as the model for what should have been done. Now you are intitled to your opinion but dont cheapen the effort made by a lot of hard working individuals by saying it is the equivalent to student animators work. Now if you want to show me a Pixar film in which there was life like movement and the character were believable I would be happy to indulge myself but there hasn't been one that doesn't look like an animated movie. The only one I can even think of that had human was the Incredibles and I am sorry 2 inch feet supporting huge thighs and a torso better suited for beer belly barfly doesn't look that realistic to me. Disney even made fun of thier character models with enchanted so even they don't take it seriously so what films should I be looking at? My whole point is you are calling something bad before you have even viewed it. It is like saying I don't like water because you didn't care of the taste of Aquafina. If the trailers weren't your cup of tea then it is your opinion I have seen it enough to know that the trailers don't give it a fair showing by half.

 

He's not saying that they seem like real characters, or that they look like real characters, but that they move like real characters. Take Jungle Book for example. If you look at the way Mowgli, Baloo, King Louie or any of the characters move it looks very realisitc. King Louie moves like a chimp. He uses his hands and and moves fluidly, almost acrobatic. Baloo has weight to his walk, you can see he's heavy. Mowgli moves like a young boy, he sways his arms alot, and touches things as he goes. It's belivable. Look at Lion King, Ratatouille, Aladdin, whatever, the characters move more realisticly than in Clone Wars. I liked Clone Wars, but the quality of the actual animation is not as good as Disney, or Genndy's work. And when he was talking about the Genndy show being better, he meant in terms of the animation not the content. I agree with you that it really pushed the suspension of belief, and the story was crap, but the animation was solid. Now is Clone Wars as bad as he's makng it out to be? No, not really. It definitley needs work with characters moving to stiffly, but for the most part it works. I'd say it's better thna or equal to Jimmy Neutron, which is the best thing to compare to since they're both 3D animation for TV, so Clone Wars does what it set out to do.

Timstuff, I'd find your criticisms alot easier to take if you had actually seen the movie, but the fact that you're just basing it off what you have heard and seen through small glimpses really takes away from your arguments. The animation isn't that bad, you have to remember, it's made for TV, and it's not just cutesy kid stuff. All the standard Star Wars stuff is there, you jusr have to aceept a few kid moments at most.

 

I have yet to be impressed with an entirely CG TV show, and while I will watch the premier of TCW on TV, I do not expect that it will be the one that breaks the trend I've perceived. My personal opinion is that CG is too expensive to do effectively on television, so it's not worth bothering. I'm sure that many people who have watched Clone Wars already and like it will thoroughly disagree with me, but the only show CG show I can recall actually exciting me was Starship Troopers Chronicles, and I haven't seen it in so many years that I probably remember it looking much better than it really did.

I will give Clone Wars a chance, however I'm not going to give it a handicap. If the animation throughout the show is as bad as what was in the trailers though, I doubt I will find much to enjoy with it. Presently, my opinion is still that they should have gotten Tartakovsky back and stuck with 2D animation, because it typically get a lot more bang for the buck in terms of how the characters move and in overall quality.

 

Well at least you're giving it a chance. It's definitley better than what's on TV now, plus, it's Star Wars. The animation quality doesn't bother me that much, but that's proably because I am a Star Wars fan first, and an animation fan second. I don't think a 2D approach would work with this new show, just because Star Wars works better in 3D, it feels more like the movies. The Genndy series was cool as a mini series, but I do prefer the 3D for the full show. As for Genndy taking the reigns,...I'm not to sure about that. I'm not a big fan of the over-the-top, anime scenes from his Clone Wars, but if Lucas could check that, it might work, becasue Genndy is definitley a genius in animation. Remember though, other directors will be workign on this show. Rob Coleman is one of them (the guy who did the work for the prequels) and he is a brilliant animator, really knows how to show emotion.

 

I agree Obi-Mcfly the whole reason I reponded to Timstuff's original post was to point out that while he makes solid points without seeing the film you can't really judge the work. Everytime I have seen it I look at it in context of being made for TV but shown on the big screen. I am not trying to cheapen Disney or Pixar's work which in the field of computer animation and traditional anamation they are pioneers, I am saying that there are two different standards and you can not hold CW up to the same standard as say Wall-E. They are vastly different in scale, time spent in production and budget. You really can't even compare the Jimmy Nuetron Movie since that was made as a movie and had all the trapings of a movie. Now if they took several episodes and showed them on screen I think that would be a basis of comparasion.

I also agree about the mini-series. It was great for what it was something to wet our appetites before RotS and it did just that but I wasn't a fan of the animation. I am not a big anime fan and many of the characters had that anime feel. I think he had some good ideas but then again I think you are right and some got away from them. THe battle between Grievous and Ki-Adi-Mundi was one example. In the previous films Ki looked every ounce the wise Jedi master, but in GT version he was like a Hulked out freak. Muscle bulging, shirt ripped uncontained rage that has to be hauled in by a Clone of all things. I thought that part was a huge stretch. Also I thought the backgrounds were some what generic.

Timstuffmay I suggest when you do watch the series pay attention to the backdrops, the digital mattes, and the starship and fighter modeling. I think those may make up for any short comings in the character models range of movement. Some of the space shots from the movie were very close to the digital shots from Rots or even ANH. I promise you wont be let down. also Obi is right there are very strong adult themes at play so don't get caught up in the kiddizing theory.

 

Was the Jimmy Neutron made as a movie? Because I thought the TV show looked alot better than the movie. Clone Wars definitley has better animation than that show.

 

Yeah it was made in 2001(again the for the time frame it wasn't bad work) made 80 million and after a budget of 30 million for production that wasn't bad. The plot line was sorta weak, aliens have kidnapped all the parents on earth and it is up to Jimmy and friends to save the earth and thier parents. I agree CW had the better animation but still it isn't an equal comparasion.

 

In 2008 it had BETTER have better animation than Jimmy Neutron. Especially since even in 2001 I didn't think JN looked very good.

 

Tim - have you watched the latest trailer for the animated series on the cartoon network website? The animation looks smoother to me.

I agree the characters moved stiffly at times, although it was mostly with the closeups/dialogue scenes. I have to say, though - I thought they really studied how Ewan and Hayden moved in AOTC and ROTS, and they seemed to have nailed their respective fighting styles.

 

I was not doubting that Clone Wars had better animation than Jimmy Neutron. I was merely emphasizing that it would be inconceivable for a high profile modern CG cartoon to not look like an improvement over a moderately successful one from 7 years ago.

 

I haven't seen the movie since it came out, but Jimmy Neutron the show has some great writing. It's a rare Jimmy Neutron episode that doesn't make me laugh out loud.

In fact, when I went to TCW, I spent a lot of time thinking, "Wow, this would be so much better if the Jimmy Neutron people had done it!"

 

Actually, I thought Obi-Wan's style was completley off. I know this isn't important, and that I shouldn't pay this much attetnion, but there was section where Obi did a series of block's using one hand that looked more liek a fencing move thna an Obi move, as he nromally blocks with two hands. I remember seeing that in the theaters and thinking, "Wow, that's wrong. Obi-Wan wouldn't do that." Though I thought that a few times during TCW.

 

Well, Obi-Wan is forever developing his fighting technique, adjusting it as the war progresses. He is formerly a practitioner of Niman, the diplomat's form, a style suitable for those who shall never see true combat, and serve merely as envoys for the Jedi Order. However, as practicality dictated, and through his experience with dueling with his Ataru-leaning Master, Obi-Wan began to study Soresu, recognizing his ability to place himself within the eye of the storm.

 

I thought his reason for developing Soresu was because he thought the reason Qui-Gon died was because of Ataru's poor defense.

 

Yes sadly after many years of TCW and the LAS, many SW fans will leave fandom. But I will stay strong and bear it, although TCW is freakin' awsome!

 

Well, I got my info from the Star Wars Visual Dictionary, so I don't know. I've never heard about Ataru having poor defense capabilities, but Soresu is better suited to blocking blaster bolts.

 

I'm getting my information from the original article in Insider that introduced the Forms.