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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph The 2023 Box Office Blood Barbie

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Dec 31, 2022.

  1. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    The career of Jason State Ham has always confused me. He just seems like a very bad version of what Jackie Chan does well. Then the films he in are inevitably badly plotted, schlocky action vehicles where the characters are thinly written, the premise is not that interesting, and the action is Not Very Good also. Much like the existence of Subway, he continues to have more and more of these things, even as they are very decidedly bad.
     
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  2. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    A sequel to SyFy-original-movie-esque trash got a $185 million budget? These budgets have got to be some sort of money laundering, right?
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2023
  3. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    The first one had a budget of about $150m and made $530 million worldwide. It's hard to believe it did so well as it is nearly unwatchable. So naturally they upped the stakes for part 2.

    there's no disagreeing with this statement but his low end stuff is a guilty pleasure for me. More guilt than pleasure, but still.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2023
  4. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    Oh, I didn't realize the first one had a similar budget and made so much. I guess betting on the sequel makes more sense now.
     
  5. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    still it's caught in the flop vortex like so many of this year's big budget releases.
     
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  6. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    Rightfully so. If we're going to have an unwatchable film with a 9-figure budget, it's gotta be using decades-old IP.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2023
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  7. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

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    Mar 22, 2003
    I love the Crank movies, wish they'd do a 3rd one.
     
  8. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    There has long been a slot for this type of film/actor.

    From the Van Damme vehicles, to the film career of Chuck Norris, going back to much of Telly Savalas' and Charles Bronson's filmography, and that just scratches the surface.

    Usually these films were less about box office draw, and more about content to sell to networks. An endless supply of 'splosions and tough guy one-on-one-foo. They wouldn't make it if it didn't make money. Proof positive that box office is not the only thing when it comes to film profitability, even in the post-physical media world.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2023
  9. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Movies made for old guys who will probably not be awake for all of the movie but that’s okay because they have a story that still works fine after missing 15 minutes.
     
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  10. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Movie that you didn't even know were on until you flip a channel and see a boom or watch someone get pushed out a window...then you leave it on through 2 commercial breaks before going back to the game.
     
  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Sorry for the long post here, but the numbers just do not support your theory. In short, April is viable for certain AAA. March is viable for AA and very, very rarely for AAA. February is sometimes viable for AA, but is not viable at all for AAA. No matter how many times they've tried.

    You have more fingers on a single hand than there are successful AAA February releases in total.

    March:

    March has usually been most viable for AA blockbuster releases like John Wick and animated/family films, where they only need to hit $400-500m worldwide to be a success. AAAs sometimes step their toe in the water (mostly due to spring breaks), but rarely do anywhere near as well as they would have had they had a non-competitive summer slot.

    March films will generally hit a ceiling of around $600-700m (again, worldwide). Not bad at all, sure, but, again, not what they would have done in the summer. There are exceptions, though, and $1b films are possible there. But it's very rare to see a film that needs to perform to that high of a level (ie: a $200+m budget) actually being released then because it's such a massive risk compared to a summer release.

    Just look at what March releases have hit $1b: Beauty & the Beast (a live action adaptation performance of which Disney is still chasing and has only met/exceeded in the July release month window [ie: what is generally among the most-coveted release dates]), Captain Marvel (while a legit hit, definitely had an Endgame boost that got it to that point), Alice in Wonderland (probably the last major film to really take advantage of the post-Avatar 3D boost vs just regular premiums), Zootopia (just barely, but legit did it on its own- but with a budget of only $150m), and... that's it. 4 films. Only 1 of which was achieved without non-repeatable circumstances (and had no need to actually perform to that level when being scheduled for that release window in the first place, ie: low-risk).

    Scope that out further to above-$700m and you get BVS ($874m, seen as a big disappointment), The Batman ($771, a success due to lower budget and in spite of post-pandemic conditions), and...that's it. 2 films. Both Batman. Not even the far-cheaper, younger-skewing Hunger Games, or well-reviewed, older-skewing Logan make the cut-off (though Logan was R rated, to be fair).

    April:

    Mario is lightning in a bottle (especially with the rotating Easter weekend timing). Last week of April (for Endgame) is essentially still May because of Marvel- they almost always release their films on, or a week ahead of, the first Saturday in May/Free Comic Book Day/Marvel Weekend (which means they can sometimes come out slightly later and free up the last weekend in April for competing films to squeeze in, like Fast 5). The only major exception was Winter Solider, which did hit in early April- but it only came out early because Amazing Spider-Man 2 took Marvel Weekend.

    You're right that there has been creep into April over the last decade (almost entirely due to the expansion of the MCU releases and the carving-out-our-corner approach of the Fast series- which had to give itself space from the Marvel releases and, so, began declaring "the summer begins now"-type statements in their ad campaigns).

    But even looking at the top 10 openings from that month, and it's 4 Fast films, 3 MCU, Mario, Sonic 2 & Jungle Book. And the releases fall off of a cliff soon after that (with sub-Clash of the Titans, sub-Shazam-level performances of AAAs, followed by more typical AAs like A Quiet Place, Morbius, etc). Generally speaking, outside of those two specific franchises (which mostly expanded into April, rather than starting in April), April hasn't evolved much past its traditional "smaller films that are summer-worthy but that would get crushed by the bigger summer releases" role.

    February:

    It's never going to happen. Not in our lifetimes. They've tried to make that month viable for AAA releases (beyond horror and romcoms) for 20 years and it hasn't worked. And the very, very few successes have been unrepeatable (which means they didn't change the overall viability of that month as a release window for such projects).

    5 movies in Feb have opened above $80m. Everything else is sub-$70m. Most sub-$60m. Ant-Man 3 being the most recent example of a "near" record-breaking opening for that first category (and is still considered to be, at best, a break-even film, assuming that its budget is under-$200m [which it might not be]).

    In terms of overall gross, less than 10 Feb films have ever grossed above $400m worldwide. 4 films have done above $500m. 3 have gone above $600m (one of which is Passion of the Christ, which has both an Easter boost [a little over a month after release] and faith-based boost for its early run, otherwise it would have certainly been in the previous brackets). 2 above $700m. 1 of those is Deadpool (certainly notable, but for other reasons difficult to replicate). The other, as I mentioned in my initial post that you were responding to, is the only true exception for February: Black Panther (which would have gone above $1b even without an Avengers boost).

    Studios are not going to see those numbers and drop a AAA-budget film into those slots without very specific circumstances or advantages. If the MCU can't replicate something or make something a thing, what chance does a lesser franchise installment have, let alone an original property? It's not going to happen. Theatrical films are simply not a "if you release it, they will come"-type scenario. That's the unfortunate reality- and it hasn't changed in decades, nor is it changing now (as far as release month windows).

    The only months that have seen change in the last quarter of a century (and it's less "have changed" and more "have slightly evolved") have been January and December, with Jan no longer being a pure dumping ground (not AAA territory, but not a garbage can; thanks Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition!*) and Dec now turning the mid-Dec/week-before-Xmas date into one of the Top 3 release dates for films that can have long runs (thanks Titanic, Lord of the Rings, Avatar and The Force Awakens! An example of efforts over a 20 year period that were successful).

    *BTW, unrelated, but total shout-out to the ANH:SE. Opening to $35m in a January in 1997 was a ridiculous accomplishment. Of the Top 160 opening weekends in January, only 5 are from 1997 or earlier:

    #12: ANH:SE, $35m (1997)
    #121: Good Morning Vietnam, $11.7m (1988)
    #133: Born on the Fourth of July, $11m (1990)
    #145: From Dusk Til Dawn, $10m (1996)
    #160: Mr. Hollan's Opus, $9.2m (1996)

    And, suddenly, you start seeing a lot more January releases doing better than those predecessors (especially 2-3 years later after schedules could be adjusted). Since it soon became replicatable, it showed that the month suddenly improved its viability vs the SWSE just being a one-off exception (which it easily could have turned out to be).
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2023
  12. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 19, 2015
    Nice post, but I think you mischaracterized Alice in Wonderland. Wasn't it pretty much the very first movie to really ride the 3D coattails of Avatar with its March 3, 2010 release? And poised there at the beginning of March it might have done as well with a late February release. Except of course Avatar was still grinding away in theaters.
     
  13. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Good post @The2ndQuest.

    But that said...if you do have something special like a Black Panther or a Passion of the Christ...you can build an audience around it at unexpected times of the year.

    But, it has to be special/unique with a buzz that transcends the normal din of film chatter.

    Seeing the same thing at the other end of the year with big budget films creeping out into October openings, trying to get a head start of the holiday season. Seems foolish to start so early, but some films have made a go.

    Honestly, I think that is one of the advantages of early advertising without a release date, especially in the modern era of social media measurables. You can gauge the anticipation/anxiety and set your schedule accordingly.

    The problem there may be some contractual hand-tying. I know some films get "promised" release windows before production begins. That can be hard to deal with when trying to set a schedule strategy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2023
  14. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    That's what I was trying to get at it. It being the first to ride the 3D coattails also sort of made it the last. Not saying that other films between 2010-2013 didn't get 3D boosts, but I don't think any got a boost like Alice did due to how hot Avatar was at the time.

    Absolutely. That's why I wanted to make sure to highlight those exceptions and how they did have something unique to build around. It makes you see why the studios were willing to take the financial risk with them. It's not as simple as just plug-and-playing a AAA from the summer into February.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2023
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  15. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 19, 2015
    agreed about Alice. It was really the one movie that got the most out of the post Avatar 3D boom and precisely because of its release date. First in line.
     
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  16. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    Yep, and then a month later we got the Clash of the Titans conversion rush-job and people were like "Oh.".
     
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  17. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 19, 2015
    The important takeaway is that it's never a bad time to release a $5 million horror movie. Maybe not on Christmas Day but otherwise go for it. or maybe it would be great Christmas day counterprogramming.

    I was supposed to drive down to Indianapolis today to see Oppenheimer 70mm, but it didn't work out. Is anyone close to Indy? I can forward the ticket. I blew my one shot to get down there for a showing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2023
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  18. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    All three versions of Black Christmas went for a Xmas release. But that's probably another example of an exception rather than a rule.
     
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  19. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 13, 2014
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    You give me an excuse to number-crunch, I'm gonna number-crunch :p.

    [​IMG]

    Me, loading-up BOM charts:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2023
  21. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 13, 2014
  22. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 27, 2000
    I'll go recharge in the back and you can stay up in the front, where they still won't release Mission Impossible films in February or March. ;)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2023
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  23. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony 16X Wacky Wed/12X Hangman Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    Mar 9, 2003
    For me, I want to see the new Mission Impossible, Spider-verse, Dune, Fast franchise but I'm in no rush to see "Part x" movies in theaters. I'll catch them on stream.
     
  24. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 19, 2015
    I don't feel sad for Tom Cruise or his Mission Impossible franchise, but it is lovely that Dead Reckoning had a 96% score on RT, similar audience scores, an "A" Cinemascore and yet still flopped, and the main reasons are that it cost twice as much as it should have and lost a game of IMAX chicken with Oppenheimer.

    At a $150 million budget it would have been a solid success.

    Oppenheimer will pass Dunkirk's global box office total this weekend.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2023
  25. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    450 million worldwide isn't exactly a flop