Mini Series The Acolyte 1.04 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

It was entirely too predictable Kelnacca would be dead when they got there. It seemed like an attempted fake out Mae would be caught and assumed the murderer after changing. Qimir even mentioned taking a Jedi's lightsaber and using it on them in the conversation about killing one without a weapon. But Mae has decided she can't do it. I'm not sure if it's entirely because she has the good in her Sol is hoping for so much as it was easier to turn one's vengeful murdering self into the Jedi. Maybe she even gambles Darth Greasysmile would mistake Osha for her. After all, she stays hidden at the end.

Generally, I feel like Osha is more a plot device and Mae is the real character. At times, I wonder if they are both this way, particularly after Osha's discussion with Jecki about how she disturbed the bug and caused its death flying haplessly into the light. There was something very Tears of Kingdom about those trees in that sequence. The conversation will pay off when it's just Jecki, Sol, and possibly Plo Koon left alive.

Mae shows how much she doesn't know who trained her at the end of the episode. Because a pack of Jedi didn't do so well in the cliffhanger ending against Darth Greasysmile. And Osha was just brushed aside. I'm betting the Red Lightsaber wielder is an apprentice and someone from last week's flashback episode info dump.

A collection of Jedi are going to try to keep this to themselves. Can that work out or is that how Acolyte will be canned to self-contained with no far-reaching consequences? Familiar faces involved would seem to say otherwise. It seems "Sith" or anything like that is treated as a childrens' fairytale at this time so their deduction is a Jedi is the real enemy who trained Mae. Logically it could stem from a fallen Jedi. Can't let the senate or the regular jackoffs walking around find out about that or the Jedi will end up about as popular as Adobe is right now. Ultimately that's where they are heading in a hundred years. When Darth Greasysmile walks out and waves a red lightsaber in Osha's face the group of Jedi seem to stare like a Werewolf walked out before they finally jump into action and get steamrolled then credits roll. Really? I just want to know if I can add Yord to my list of survivors.

The planet was a really neat the design. I liked the cloud forest biome.

 

The good:
- again very starwarsy (Score and visually)
- overall the story is interesting although sometimes predictable

The bad:
- ridiculous runtime again for a show with such a potential of delivering good dialogues that stretch the episode to at least 45 minutes.
- Some terrible dialogues.
- The character motivations of Mae and Osha are inconsistent, farfetched and not convincing.

Thoughts:
- The baddie with the red lightsaber looks like a Knight of Ren

 

Literally the way they have to write it.

 

Almost forgot - they made a point of stating that the giant flying bug monster was attracted to the light of the lightsabers. Makes me wonder if it was foreshadowing what might happen when 8 lightsabers light up. Not that they don't have other bigger problems, but hey, with so may red shirts maybe there's room for 1 or 2 to get chomped by giant flying bug monsters.

Another side point - what was the deal with that red dust cloud when Mae fell down in front of Bazil? Was that just dust? Seems odd for a rainforest environment. Or were those blob shapes in front of her some sort of spore pods or other strange alien thing?

 

I'm still not on board Sith vs Jedi in this era.

I wish we were given a legitimate dark jedi instead. I find it more interesting having a jedi fall to the darkside in the "Golden Age" of the Jedi Order, one whom is not some servant to the RoT Sith, then another "Jedi vs Sith" scenario. He could hid among the Jedi, using the illusion of still being a practicing Jedi. You could then have the fallen Jedi look for an apprentice......and acolyte......

 

Have we seen Mae with a lightsaber yet? She tries to grab Indara's in the opening fight scene.

The unknown Sith did do a very big Force push. Mae did something similar when she created the dirt cloud in episode two.

 

Sith fly now??!

 

Hmmm so many people say Qimir will be the Sith but I think it is too obvious.. It's like it is made that way for us to think he is - oh look, he is on the planet with her, so he is the Sith.. One of the main things this show is doing, is really showing us not all is as it seems, so it will be very interesting to see where we go from here... Hopefully no flashback in next episode, just jump right back in the action.

Those final moments were amazing!

 

The writing in this episode was atrocious in many spots. "Oh wait, I forgot, he's unarmed. And as was set up without explanation before, I can't fight an unarmed person. Oh and because of that, I just realized now in this forest for some reason, but not two episodes ago, that I don't want vengeance anymore because Mae is alive. So yeah, I'm done and I'm gonna turn myself into the wookie Jedi. And I'll set a wookie trap for Qimir so the audience thinks Kelnacca trapped him but it was me. Ha! Oh, but wait. Now they think I killed the wookie even though I didn't because my master killed him and I'm in this room. Oh no." It was just one contrivance after another. And you can't just insert a sudden character flip like that for a major character like Mae. I mean, if Kelnacca was armed, I guess she would've stayed on her path with the Sith, or not...because Mae is alive? Or something?

Not to mention Osha who's just given random characterization moments with seemingly little sense. Suddenly she's tapping into the force again, and it's disturbing her because she's bothering large bugs and getting them killed? Why is her being afraid of using the force dropped in here in so perfunctory a way, and what does it have to do with anything? If it's very relevant for later, and I suspect it is, introduce it in a less haphazard way. And these little "lesson drops," such as "You are not defined by what you've lost, but what you've survived, and you've survived a lot" feel far too fortune cookie, and without any buildup. It feels like a lazy "drop this one-liner in here to explain a theme" kind of deal. Very Last Jedi-ish. "Don't fight what you hate, but save what you love." But at least that line had more character setup. This is just Jecki, who barely knows Osha, dropping a major life lesson on her. Theme-speaking, as I've called it before. Makes for stilted characters and stilted drama.

I liked a lot of the atmosphere on the planet, though, and the little touches of nuance in the worldbuilding, like the local tribal leader guy sitting on his scavenged chair, and being impatient with the interventionist Jedi. That was great. Though on that front, there seems to be a major quality difference between what seem to be on-location shots on the hillsides, and really fake-looking forest sets. Ah well.

Anyway, lots of contrivances, not great lines, not great performances (some very bad acting in places), or character development in this. But some of the better cinematography thus far with the wide shots.

ETA: I'm not getting emotionally invested, though. And four episodes in, I think that might be an issue. Honestly, I'm starting to feel like @Sarge about the shows that bear too much of what looks like...Filoni's imprint. A cartoonish handholdy-ness to it. The worst offender this episode being Vernestra's "She has killed two Jedi and is now looking for a third. Look, here is a hologram showing the two Jedi she killed in red, and the other one who she hasn't killed yet in blue. Just in case everyone watching is a total and complete idiot or have no memory whatsoever."

My favorite part of the episode, I think.

That's always what you want from the writers. Just get us to that plot point. And make the characters do and say massively uncharacteristic things just to get us there. And quickly.

In fact, he speaks so slowly and deliberately that I think you'd have to actively decide to not understand him in order to not understand him. He was 100% clear.

My favorite part of the episode, I think. And the cloud forest. I like cloud forests.

 

Thought It was a good episode to move the plot along

Ki Adi Mundi cameo was fun - especially a he is so dismissive of the sith 100 years later so some foreshadowing there

Seeing relationship building between certain characters (jecki and osha!)

Also nice to see shots on location a opposed to all sound stage (Brecon Beacons in Wales!)

Keen to see the Kelnacca Torbin 'duel' that appears in the trailers - could be a red herring that though

I think Qimir is the apprentice not the master.

 

Guys I can explain. His massive head allows him to time travel and he survived order 66 and went back in time to get Sith off the menu.

 

Let's just move the plot along is never a recipe for a good episode, IMO.

Why not? And I don't mean in terms of mirroring the horrific violence and back-stabbing in that show. I just mean in terms of developing characters and unfolding the plot in a quality and believable way. With good writing and acting. Why shouldn't we want that from Star Wars? Andor, Mando S1 (mostly) and parts of Ahsoka did that for me. But I'm starting to think, beginning with Mando S3, that Lucasfilm is leaning hard in the direction of going a lot younger with its target audience. After Andor concludes, I suspect we won't see anything like it again. At least for a long while.

 

As Bor said he speaks really slowly and articulates super carefully so I don’t really see the problem… and English is my third language so… anyway most people I know always watch with English CC subtitles on because they provide extra info on the scenes as names of new characters and so on so…

Yep not suspect at all… but so suspect that it is almost too easy?

Agree… she is definitely serving the Apprentice!

Also thought that, the body type and stance correspond…
… but all these hints that we got feel almost too much and could be a misdirection?
Maybe it is truly

Spoiler

Bazil possessing someone?

I thought it could not be mother Aniseya as she seemed taller than that in the flashbacks so… still convinced she could be the master though…
Not completely sold on this episode… something seemed off and for the first half I was uneasy… some scenes were rushed and the pacing was off… the interactions between Osha and Jecki were awkward and not organic to the scene at all… still have to understand if it is due to acting or to the writing… or a question of lack of chemistry between the two characters… in the other side the interaction with Yord when they were walking to the forest was really good and organic…I think the two actors have a great chemistry and work well together in scenes ( maybe it is also due to the material they are given to work with which seems to be more consistent than other scenes?)... I am starting to like Yord and think he is a lot more than what we think we see and what we were made to assume with the steaming scene…
Second part/last part I enjoyed but the scene of Mae changing idea was absolutely not good IMO… either there is something we don’t know or it was badly written and too rushed…
These episodes are too short it’s getting ridiculous…
Impressing how laughing mask just threw Osha aside like a ragdoll…
Still have to think about it all and rewatch though to make my mind up…

EDIT: to avoid troubles when I use the term "chemistry" I am using it in a cinematic way...which has nothing to do with physical attraction or s&xual tension between people... it is chemistry as in "chemistry read" and "chemistry test"!

 

I hope so but I don't think this show is smart enough for a misdirection. I can't believe May just flipped to the light side in this episode with no build up.

 

Did she really do that though? Maybe not?
But with what we know now and if there is not more to it I agree it felt extremely rushed and not motivated at all...
Wondering if Sol is going to get back to the ship in one piece and we are going to hear his "explaining" he promised... will that be the second POV flashback we are waiting for to understand what truly happened on Brendok?
I think what Sol said pretty much confirmed what we were almost all thinking: last week's episode was Osha's POV and there is more to that story we stillneed to see and it will be really different!

 

Man imagine a star wars series focused on the Jedi Order but with Andor quality.

I hope someday we do get that. There are still centuries of material for the High Republic to explore. Maybe a live action series between Phase 2 and Phase 1. Or a series set prior to the HR but after Old Republic (Early-Mid Galactic Republic). If Old Republic is ever explored in live action, hopefully it will done better then what The Acolyte has given us.

Next Jedi series should also have longer episodes.....we could use more time exploring these new characters.

 

Yeah, i agree. Was tired when i wrote my post, should have nuanced that sentence a bit more. With equal i meant not going in that «overly adult direction». In terms of scale and dramatic ambition, we should definetely have a Star Wars tv series that matches Dragons or other big HBO shows. As i wrote, we deserve that. Sure, House of the Dragons can get a bit over the top with its backstabbing, twists and overall - slightly soap opera plot, but its grand, visually striking and leaves you mostly in awe of what you see. It has tension, but also manage to build slowly and organic. Andor is indeed the closest we get to that from Disney +. I much rather have one big Star Wars series that lasts many seasons - than many limited series as we have now. A story that unfolds during one of the big eras, but with the focus of family maybe, even a family dynasty ( or even a regular family, obviously not the Skywalkers), with the children having to sacrifice for war etc. So many possibilities. Mandalorian is not that, its more of a stylished solo western concept. Andor, again, it has ingredients that i want in a big Star Wars show - as it manages to both focus on a personal journey and tell us someting about the state of the galaxy in a deeply oppressed era.

 

I just realized that when Mae is "turning" and also before in other dialogue with Qmir she speaks about "having a deal" with the master and "not needing the deal anymore because her loyalty is with Osha" and such...
... what if the master promised her to somehow make her get her family back if she complies with her mission?
Wouldn't that be canon sith trickery to get someone to the dark side?
Not talking especially Anakin here... also Ezra being showed his parents and so on...
She made a deal and that deal should get here something that is somehow undermined by the fact that Osha is alive... that is my understanding... what do you think?
I have to rewatch!

 

Star Wars has always been for kids.

 

Agreed, the Old Republic eras are the best for a story like that. With it being around 24,000 years, there are plenty of ways to tell stories via live action Tv while still saving plenty of room/freedom in portraying it in movies.

Of course they need to have a good budget and use it wisely.

The 100 year darkness is ripe for material in exploring "family dynasties". The era in which Jedi fought against their fallen brothers. I doubt it was just Jedi vs Dark Jedi since it lasted along time. Each group probably had various factions allied to them. So room to also focus on non-force sensitives. Perhaps even have "dark jedi families". I doubt a dark jedi would care about the whole no spouse thing. In a long ass war where more dark jedi are needed, having children can be seen as making future students to join their cause.

Citizens of the Old Republic being born and dying without seeing their Republic at peace. Since their is no clone army, we can see volunteers and eventually people drafted to fight against the dark forces......

The idea of a very long war has never been done before in live action nor animation for Star Wars, so hopefully it is portrayed one day and produced in good quality.

 

It most certainly was not

 

Kids getting older now

But i am not joking, as i think «kids» these days are much more used to graphic violence and are watching more serious tv shows on their tablets etc. Much more than it was for me who grew up in the 80s and 90s.

You can always support the franchise with animated shows, more geared towards the youngest ones.

 

Star Wars has been for the whole family for many years, yes. Not just for kids.

But that’s beside the point. I’m saying that Star Wars should move beyond “what it’s always been.”

Given changes in the media environment and shifting tastes, an aging as well as a new young fandom (the older Star Wars fandom is massive), and in the interest of avoiding a stale franchise that continuously repeats itself (and simply redoes what it’s always done), Star Wars should explore all kinds of new styles and forms of storytelling, including, but not limited to, complex political thrillers like Andor. It can have shows that are just for kids, like Young Jedi Adventures, which is adorable, and it can even have shows that are primarily for adults, like Andor. And shows in between like Mando. I don’t understand this desire to suffocate creative freedom in the franchise by insisting that everything created within its bounds is decidedly accessible for kids. Star Wars is an endless sandbox. Take advantage of that.

ETA: I actually think one problem is nostalgic creators that want to recreate the feeling of 80s Star Wars, and even 80s TV shows, thinking that this is something the younger generations will be into as well. I have some of that nostalgia too, don’t get me wrong. But it’s cheeseball and often cheap, and lots of viewers expect a little more nuance and complexity in their TV shows these days. Including older teens and young adults. By all means, keep making content that appeals primarily to the younger set. But don’t put a lid on content that goes beyond that.

 

Sometimes "mysteries" can and should be super obvious for the plot and audience. Right now he makes the most sense for a lot of reasons, not least of which is the lack of other characters we've seen and no way it'll be some random person