The Bad Batch The Bad Batch 1.01 - Aftermath - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Finally got round to watching this after being stuck on my first day of the new job yesterday!

A good opening episode, but not without its flaws imo. Caleb/Kanan is one of my top 5 characters in all of SW, so I really loved the opening scenes and teared up. Seeing young Caleb in action was great and I’ve no doubt will make his scenes in Rebels where he talks about running away all the more powerful.

Omega seems a good addition, and I’m so glad they went with Crosshair being cut loose from CF99. For the first hour of the show I really struggled to see or feel any kind of chemistry between the characters, but as soon as he was removed from the equation I just felt much warmer towards the bad batch

There were definitely some negatives for me. Was this definitely a full movie length episode and not 4 chopped together ? I felt like the pacing was so odd for the first 50 minutes. Why was Tarkin so quick to go to Kamino and begin looking at the necessity of clones ? Why was Saw so against the Empire within about a day ? That whole scene felt like it began and ended in about 3 minutes.

So yeah, a good introduction but nothing that’s got me singing from the rooftops just yet. I am definitely excited to see where they go from here now the intro is finished and out of the way

*and also the fact that they made a Caleb model for series 7 of TCW to then use him in this, gives me great hope for future unfinished TCW arcs. They really seem to have made an effort to remodel Grievous and at the minute his appearances in this and the opening of SoM must only total about 15 seconds, son of dathomir anyone ??

 

I'm sure this is supposed to be sarcastic for some reason, but in a completely serious and non sarcastic way:

Anything TCW (even the worst retcon, whatever that word means for people these days) >>>> the best thing that Disney has released in Star Wars

So, I am ok with the "retcons", especially when they make perfect sense and improve the story. Like every single retcon that Lucas or Filoni have ever done for example.

I gave this episode a 10 because the storytelling was phenomenal, as always with Filoni.

 

I think we also need to credit Brad Rau he is basically in the same position as Dave was on TCW.

 

Actually, I was kidding.

I agree with you.

 

It's pretty easy to imagine an incident that would turn you against the Empire in less than a day, just ask the Jedi. I mean, even assuming nothing else specifically happened on Onderon just the act of declaring oneself Emperor in the place of democracy is a good way to make enemies of a guy who was already a freedom fighter.

 

Fair enough, it was probably just my grievance with the flow of the episode particularly around this part that bothered me on first viewing. I’m going to watch it again tomorrow and may well find that it doesn’t bother me in the slightest

 

You know it’s fascinating to see this thread compared to Mando threads shows the amount of interest. Less interest in bad batch as to be expected but not by that much.

 

8/10

Initially when I saw the Bad Batch on the last season TCW I wasn't a fan, didn't hate them but wasn't in love w/them. Their concept as the Special Ops of the clones was cool but otherwise was indifferent. That changed last night. I felt the show got off to a good start. Seeing Caleb aka Kanan was cool and a real surprise.

I think there had been a question did they carry out Order 66 and now we have our answer and it was done quickly, I wasn't sure how fast it'd be answered.

I did like how we really see each clone's own personality and "humanness" if you will. Hunter is a very interesting character and it'll be nice his progress. I hope we see the others as well and more Echo.

Seeing Saw was a nice bonus to show where things are headed (not that we need to know).

I'm intrigued by Omega and really anticipate that mystery unraveling. I can't think of what Kamino is hiding about her.

Lastly, it'll be interesting to see how they come into contact w/Fennec Shand and others.

 

Omega is the naturally born offspring of Lama Su and Jango fett.

 

It's always sad that animated Star Wars gets less eyeballs than live action Star Wars, regardless of quality, simply because its animated. At this point I honestly think animated Star Wars is better than live action. At least people are watching though. I remember it feeling like a wasteland back in my school days when Clone Wars was originally airing.

 

Yea, when TCW originally aired I was in college & it wasn't regarded highly. When I rewatched last year to prep for the last season I realized how really good it is/was and should be appreciated as such. Now, I agree at least people are watching and I have high hopes for the show.

 

Well, I'm a few days late to watching the premiere. Not for any real reason, I just wasn't as initially enthused as some and—yeah, that's about it. As someone who really didn't enjoy the Batch in TCW and was pretty much bewildered that this was going to be a full-blown series when it was announced, getting into this show seemed like it was going to be an uphill battle. Yet, here I am now, halfway up the hill with some...complicated feelings for my trouble.

Let's start with the non-spoilery generalities:
I think the thing I liked most about this episode was the atmosphere, the tense, transitional uncertainty of suddenly going from the Republic to the Empire, where absolutely anything—even the comfortingly familiar—can now betray you at the drop of a hat. It hits similarly to Dark Lord, the tail end of Republic Commando, or the start of Dark Times, in all the ways I've come to enjoy, while never quite falling into feeling redundant thanks to its different area of focus. That said, the members of the Batch themselves are still...not great. Better than their debut, certainly! But with a lot left to be desired. Wrecker's "personality" still stands out in the worst possible way, Crosshair was entirely predictable, and Echo may as well not have been there for all he contributed. I'm pleasantly surprised by how much I like Omega so far, though. Hopefully that's all something that'll develop positively as the show goes on.

Visually, this show is gorgeous right out of the gate. I think I actually let out a little "oh damn" when they had that close up on the snowy leaf. The overall visual quality has come so far since the Clone Wars movie, it's crazy to think back on some of the earlier limitations the animation team had to contend with. But for all it's beauty, that doesn't erase the problematic design decisions. I'd hoped that the dev team would take some of the early criticisms of the Batch's appearances to heart and make some changes, if not during TCW, than at least for their own series. But that wasn't to be. And I was thoroughly disappointed that the Batch wasn't even the worst offender when it came to careless whitewashing in this episode. It's frankly inexcusable, and a huge step backward after everything Rebels and Resistance did for the franchise.

Now, as far as the narrative is concerned, the broad strokes of this story are basically Mia catnip. I love it. I'm interested to know what's going on with Omega, even if I feel as though I've got a reasonably good idea, and I'm excited to see where things go now that the story's opening up to the wider galaxy.
More spoilery:

Spoiler

Order 66 still hits as hard as ever, the rising tension and discomfort of the growing realization that someone's pulled the rug out when you weren't looking and now, somehow the whole world seems to be turning on you and you're not sure why—good stuff. That initial approach to Kamino, complete with the very Imperial V-Wings, was pretty effective in setting the new tone of things to come, as was the Emperor's declaration speech. But I'm not a fan of the idea that all of the standard clones are just forever locked in "Bad Guy Mode" now. Having settled into a contentious relationship with the whole bio-chip business over the last however many years, with how much I love or hate it varying from moment to moment, that still feels incredibly unnecessary every time a work drifts into that. Similarly, the idea that Crosshair couldn't just choose the Imperial path because of his obvious predilections, he had to be super-chipped into it, just feels kind of silly. I guess all I can hope for now is a moving resolution to that plot thread, whether good or ill.

It was cool to see Saw again, midway through his transformation into Forest Whittaker, and I'm also curious to see if we'll get the clone rebellion of Kamino in this series. I didn't have the highest hopes previously, but there's enough simmering in the premiere that I could actually see it coming to a head sometime in the near future.

As for the elephant in the canon...I'm annoyed, sure, but I think for me it's ultimately less that the exact details aren't the same, and more so that so much of the weight of Depa's death was lost for not much in the way of gain. This moment feels enormous in the Kanan comic, but it feels like a footnote in The Bad Batch. Yes, that's a matter of character perspective and we're following the Batch more than little Caleb here, but given that it will be how most people experience this incredibly pivotal moment in Kanan's life, a moment that fuels several of the most raw and intimate moments we're treated to in Rebels, it's absolutely a letdown. And this version is heavily whitewashed on top of that, so it's really a disappointment all around.

The lackluster music was offset by solid performances from much of the cast, including Tom Kane. After hearing about his recent stroke and all of the unfortunate complications that accompanied it, I was surprisingly delighted to hear his opening narration—something I'd never been the biggest fan of across TCW's run—even if it makes sense that he'd have recorded it well earlier. Michelle Ang was also a great addition to the cast, though her natural accent unfortunately highlights just how abysmal Dee Baker's Temuera Morrison impression really is when you're forced to confront it.

Overall, it was a lot better than I was anticipating, and a better first impression than TCW's movie made, but messy decisions left it a lot worse off than it could have been. Still, I'm looking forward to the next episode a lot more than I was previously, so I guess that's progress.

 

As a fan of TCW in general, and actually liking the Bad Batch in the final season, I could only give this a 6.

One thing I liked is they started explaining the Empire going away from clones, and I'm assuming would eventually get to the ole Stormtroopers. I liked seeing Kamino again. Always a fan of Tarkin.

But the dislikes were pretty jarring... Caleb sounded like a 40 year old man (because it was LOL). I don't care if he is Kanan, couldn't they use a better voice? Omega seems to me to be a "Cousin Oliver". You know, when a show starts going downhill, they throw in a new young kid out of nowhere to generate excitement. Also Omega sounds like a full grown woman, again jarring to hear that voice come out of a "kid". Hate to be "that guy", but Omega seems forced. Like they had no "girl" representation, so they had to check a box. So somehow the whole cloning process went so bad that they accidentally made a little girl? LOL

Also Saw is odd. I see where he fits the story, but again the animation is so off. But to be fair, they always did a bad job with Saw in all the other animated series.

Although I rated it a six, I'm holding out hope that the show gets better. I have to admit, I disliked Ahsoka at first. Then they did a better job with her character as time went on. Maybe Omega will get better?

Look forward to seeing how the clones get phased out and the Stormtroopers get moved in. If they decide to cover that.

Ha ha, I really felt this happened.

 

They were always gonna introduce a young character

-Jedi Knight Fett

 

I kind of agree that kid characters shouldn't be in every Star Wars product, so there should be some kind of rubric for deciding whether to have them. But on the other hand, the clones are basically kid characters themselves, like, they're all 14 years old because of growth acceleration, and the brainwashing is like "super" school. It's a kid's show, even moreso than the movies so I think it's appropriate to have a "biological" kid in the mix as well.

I don't have a problem with Saw's writing or animation so far, but I agree that he might be appearing too often. If they keep it up, it could get to the point where he's more prominent than Mon Mothma, which would undermine the OT.

 

Saw represents a different branch of the Rebellion, so I don't think there's any potential of him undermining the OT. He's more interesting than Mothma anyway due to his radicalism.

 

I rewatched Victory and Death beforehand to get myself back in the Star Wars mood, specifically for the time frame, and it worked. I didn't expect Aftermath to stylistically tie its opening to TCW as much as it does, and it's fitting; the title card is like a microcosm of the episode.

I ended up reading a few spoilers, one of which was Caleb's inclusion. FPJ's voice is a little off, though I think it's effective in some moments more than others. Beyond that, it's good to see these pivotal moments for him (as someone who hasn't read the comic). I like that we get a bit of time with him after Depa's death. The juxtaposition of Hunter and Crosshair actually adds to Kanan's later reluctance to trust even clones who aren't presenting hostility. Caleb also works as a precursor to Omega (which could hint that the latter is Force-sensitive, but I'm not convinced of it).

The return to Kamino after Order 66 is a neat way to evoke a similar tone to Anakin being brought back to Coruscant. It's also good to see the Bad Batch doing more of their own thing, in their own spaces. I enjoy their arc in TCW, but I think they're more suited to having the narrative focus. For instance, there's more banter between Tech and Wrecker than I remember from the other episodes, and that sibling dynamic contrasts well with Crosshair's antagonism. Adding to that, I like having an additional childlike element to Wrecker while introducing a child character.

Kamino also serves as what seems like a tonal springboard for the series. Just seeing Tarkin meet with the Kaminoans is like a collision of worlds, and now the latter are wary of the Empire. Crosshair was another spoiler for me, but his position still makes an interesting start for a protagonist (albeit a prickly one).

I like the time spent with these characters, and I love the ending into the credits, so I'm definitely on board!

9/10

 

It was a nice episode, nothing truly spectacular but got me engaged and interested in following this series. This era post-republic, pre-rebellion is very much unexplored so it'll be interesting to get to know it a bit more.

Spoiler

The Depa Billaba and Caleb Dume cameos worked very well as a "prologue" and for me (Kanan fan) it was a nice, unexpected addition. The events aren't exactly portrayed as they were in the comics but I don't mind that. And even if this might be considered "fan service" , it was properly done as viewed from the Bad Batch's perspective. This is their story, not anyone else's.

In any case fans jumped to the oportunity and mixed scenes from adult Kanan and young Caleb, to IMHO great effect. Just two examples:







The first one gives me chills, very well made the superimposed "RUN!" as spoken by the Grand Inquisitor with the image of Depa Billaba saying the word

The second one made me curious, it was the first time I noticed that adult Kanan knew about the chip. But .... how does Kanan know about the clones justifying their actions with the chip (something he clearly didn't believe was a sufficient excuse for them) ? Could it be that he meets the Bad Batch again and Hunter tells him about it? Obviously it wasn't Rex, they didn't know each other before Rebels.

All this to say that maybe we meet young Caleb Dume again in the Bad Batch series ...

 

Spoiler

 

the accuracy of the TROS ROTS scenes shown at the start of the episode was pretty great. Right down to Grievous' finger movements.

It doesn't contradict the entire comic.

 

Fixed.

But yes, honestly that's my favorite part of the episode. Every time TCW recreates scenes from the films I get goosebumps.