Full Series The Bad Batch 3.03 - Shadows of Tantiss - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Again, more relevantly: T-cells. Nobody is saying just “M” in the episode, after all. It’s M-count. In any event, of course it’s possible Filoni is afraid of using the full word. But as he has pushed many elements of the PT into his work, I won’t accuse him of that unless there’s evidence for it. You unequivocally accuse him of it, and asked him to “man up,” which I believe is shorthand for the “be more courageous,” unless I’m mistaken?

Finally, I think you understand that I’m not actually M-ing you, as you said. It’s all in good fun.

This. Midichlorian count = six syllables. M-count = two. That could be all there is to it.

 

My only gripe with this episode (and the show in general) is how the clone commandos are treated. When it comes to their competence on this show, they are basically stormtroopers with cooler armor, when they are supposed to be the elite, and their armor is supposed to be actually functional, which is why Gregor managed to survive getting blown up. But in this episode, Crosshair just knocked one out with a slam against a wall. I understand that protagonists can't die or be captured for plot's sake, but they should put up a much better fight, or not be in the fight at all. If protagonists can't die/get injured, they should have some red shirts to kill off.



But it's not the problem with this show exclusively. Star Wars is notorious for its plot armor on the protagonists, and that's okay if the story demands it. But it's kinda sad, because otherwise, The Bad Batch is an excellent show, and this just rubs me the wrong way. And I know that Filoni knows what commandos are supposed to be, because he showed them properly in TCW, and he understands what they are supposed to be, as he said in the TCW featurette above. And I am more than certain that commandos in this show exist because Filoni wanted to include them, since he's always liked them and tried to add them whenever he could. But their competence was lost in transition. Similar thing also happened in Andor, where the elite Deathtroopers were casually killed off by Cassian like some mooks, whereas they were shown as deadly elite in Rogue One.

Just a nitpick in otherwise great episode all around.

 

Because they are faceless. Scorch is shown to be competent easily as much as Gregor. If Gregor was a no name clone commando he wouldn’t be shown as competent.

that’s literally it.

 

I also don't like the bulky, He-man action figure look of the clone commandos. The great thing about so many stormtrooper designs, and most of the clones thus far, is that they have a skeletal air about them. That gives them an eerie presence. Bulking them up kills that, and makes them look like some characters from Halo or something. Kinda cheap-looking.

Not good:



Good:

 

Ironically Karen Travis also wrote for Halo. I know she didn’t invent clone commandos or their look. But I do find it funny that she went on to write about a different set of super soldiers. She found her niche. Good for her.

 

But since we have them be in position of command over regular stormtroopers, since we have them in the show at all, there should be an established hierarchy of difficulty. Like with the CIS droids, you have B1s, B2s, Droidekas and Commando Droids. The hierarchy of difficulty between these units was shown rather well in The Solitary Clone episode. These droids are not the same, and they are not supposed to be the same. Commando droids are much, much more dangerous than B1s. Whereas we saw Crosshair, Cody and his men destroying B1 droids rather easily, they have to work hard to destroy Droidekas while losing one of Cody's men in the process, and Commando droids straight up kill what's left of Cody's men, and then nearly kill Cody and Crosshair, too. Even the Jedi run away from Droidekas. That creates stakes and tension in an action scene, and elevates it by having the protagonists struggle, and it's not just meaningles pew-pew-pew. Same should apply to clone commandos, who are stationed at Mount Tantiss, Emperor's top secret most important facility, who are Doctor Hemlock's personal army, who were assigned to train the new Imperial army and are commanders of these TK-troopers. Yet they are functionally no different at all from stormtroopers, other than fancier armor. They don't put up a good fight — not that we've seen (other than Scorch). You differentiate them visually and narratively, yet you don't show what differentiates them when it comes to the actual combat and their function as a combat unit, and why the audience and the protagonists should be scared of them, thus removing all the tension.

Well, they are supposed to be the Spartans from Halo, but in Star Wars. They are elite. Just like in real world, you have regular infantry, your mobilized men, who were taken out of their peaceful life, and then you have some Navy Seals or Delta Force, who are all buffed killing machines. Clone commandos are that — they are built different, they are bulkier than regular clones (you could clearly see Gregor having much, much more muscle mass than regular clones), and they have fancier gear. They look cool as hell, and their glowing visor in the dark is instantly memorable, striking visual.

 

But there is. Crosshair easily fights that clone commando the longest.

also you have to realize Clone Force 99 is basically canon’s equivalent to the Null Arcs the best of the best. Literally the best in all of the clone army.

so yes a member of the bad batch should be able to take out any clone commando with relative ease just as much as any clone commando should be able to take out a clone trooper with relative ease.

 

Crosshair is also supposed to be physically (his hand is literally shaking) and psychologically broken after 6 months of imprisonment and torture. They made a point of him missing a shot, and that will be a big part of his character going forward, coping with the fact that he is losing what made him superior and gave him purpose. And the problem is not that Crosshair took him out, but that he shouldn't be taken out by a minor slam against a wall. The guy is wearing an armor and a helmet, and they are designed to withstand massive explosions. All I am saying is, they should put more effort into writing these action scenes and understanding the purpose of the assets they are using, in this case the purpose of this bulky clone trooper, who is different from stormtroopers and regular clone troopers. Because they did put a lot of effort into something like The Solitary Clone. And it was great. The creative team of The Bad Batch is clearly capable of producing great Star Wars, more so than most of the live-action stuff. And the episode was otherwise great. Someone should just point this particular point out to them Or at least have some red shirts for them to kill in the future to show what warrants their position at Mount Tantiss, them being assigned to train Stormtroopers, and being Dr. Hemlock's personal army, when the rest of the clones were retired.

 

The glowing visor is cool. I’ll give you that. But that’s it. Don’t care what the reason for the design is. They look dumb to me. And a big step down from most clone designs, as well as from most Star Wars designs, which are usually many steps ahead of other sci-fi franchises.

A nitpick? Absolutely. I just expect the best visuals from Star Wars.

 

Least favourite of the three, I felt it dragged a little. Still very solid for an animated series.

 

If they are trying to find a blood sample that can accept transfer of Palpatine's blood why are they limiting the test population to only clones?

 

I don’t think they are. What do you think they were doing with all those people they stole from the planet that had the Zillo beast run amok last season.

the clones are just easy test subjects. However I think what the season is leaning toward is that one could not find the ability to transfer M-count without degradation of the blood naturally. I wouldn’t be surprised if Omega is the literal only person in the galaxy it works on right now.

 

I gave this a 10/10, but honestly wish I could give it an 11.

This had so much in it and was the perfect end point to the 3-episode intro. I can't help but wonder why Omega is so important but all I can think of is the relation to TROS and SOTS. That'd mean though the Emperor had this plan set up for...what 30 years before ROTJ? That's a nice addition to Canon.

I was really glad Crosshair was able to escape. There were points I thought is he going to sacrifice himself so Omega can leave. Thankfully all went well. The tension was constant throughout the entire episode though. It was so good. I'll probably watch it again to see if I missed something because I'm sure I did but it was a great ep. I really think introducing the Emperor in person raises the stakes. We see now that the stakes are high.

 

Is SOTS Shadow of the Sith?
Anyway I don’t doubt Palpatine has been working on cloning himself for decades. I wouldn’t actually be surprised if that was why Omega was originally created. But Nala Se hid the results. So that would put the plan at least like 50 years in the making.

 

It will make way more sense if it is revealed the blood being added to the Clones samples if from Jango Fett and only Omega shows no reduction in his m count

Palaptine would then need to study Omega to work out what she has that he needs to build into his own clones

 

Yeah I agree with this...it kinda reminded me of Jamie Lannister losing his sword hand in GOT. His fighting ability was one of his major defining characteristics and it was taken away. (Although his coping with the loss was more nuanced and better done in the books.) I'm interested to see how Crosshair is going develop as a character because of this.

Did she tell Crosshair that Tech is dead? I wasn't clear on that. If she did I would have rather seen it happen on screen than off screen to see Crosshair's reaction to the fact he lost one of his brothers. I think it would have been a missed opportunity to show a little more emotion and character development on Crosshair's part.

 

We only get one mention of Tech in the episode where she says Tech had her memorize all the plans. And he replied of course he did.

 

9/10 for an excellent payoff and springboard! It occurred to me that one could probably watch this episode without the first, at least for the major plot points. But this one runs as well as it does because the first episode walks. There's more tension in the early portion while things are largely routine for Omega (partly a credit to the Kiners), and the actions taken in each revisited area feel appropriately significant (talk about actions and consequences, Hemlock). Omega blocking the mouse droid is still a comedic highlight.

Her dynamic with Crosshair is a fun contrast throughout the escape, but also very effective for their sake; I like that Crosshair is skeptical, but steps up whenever Omega falters, and I love whenever one of those numbered plans comes up. That's probably my favorite action scene with Omega at this point.

Oh, and there's Palpatine. Always a good source of gravitas. It'll be cool if he has one or two more appearances (ala Season 4 of Rebels).

 

Not with these element but most of other substances especially if composites are not referred with their extended names during conversations between scientists in a lab or everywhere outside of a conference room when you are presenting and therefore you will go all "Sodium hydrogen carbonate", "Carbon dioxide"",glyceryl trinitrate" and "dinitrogen monoxide"
Source: scientists, too many scientists... not performing enough because nobody invented useful things like kyber crystals and artificial midichlorians so basically complete failures of scientist

 

Yes, it is Shadow of the Sith. I really like how this is being revealed though.

 

Also regarding Halo - I am currently watching season 2 of its tv series adaptation and the plot is suspiciously similar to The Bad Batch.

 

What's the whole "M-count" thing about?
Omega is the exact (except, obviously, having XX chromosomes instead of XY) genetic copy of Jango Fett. If the Empire is trying to make Force-sensitive clones, Omega (and all other Jango's clones too) is useless because Jango was not Force-sensitive.

 

I think people are reading too much into that. Omega is unaltered in that unlike every other clone except Boba she ages normally and has nothing inhibiting her that the other clones do.
However as Cut Lawquane stated in season 1 “the Kaminoans don’t create without a purpose…you all had one so what’s hers”

Tech’s little test he ran isn’t going to be like hey her purpose is x.

plus didn’t tech literally say in that same scene “she’s an enhanced clone like us”

 

Jango may not have been Force-sensitive, but his unaltered genetic make-up might be conducive to being blended and enhanced with Force-sensitive blood, to be used as a base for growing Force-sensitive clones. That's all they're testing for. They're adding a sample of blood with a high M-Count (maybe even Palpatine's blood) to each Clone variant, to see what works best, but all of the modifications to the Regs have diluted their effectiveness. Hemlock and Nala Se are seen discussing their prior efforts in the first episode; they say some progress has been made, but that the results are too unstable.

Nobody ever said that Omega had a high M-Count (yet). They said that her blood didn't degrade or reject any midi-chlorians during a transfusion.

So basically, the wildest upshot of all this would be the possibility that Snoke has Boba's blood.