ST The Cave-A Domain Of Evil It Is. In, The haters Must Go (The Official haters' Sanctuary)

I'll redirect the question straight at yourself.

Doesn't matter how many times I watch Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress, the only element Lucas obviously adopted for ANH is the bickering between the two peasants that would sort of become Artoo and Threepio.
Considering the characters are still totally different doesn't remotely qualify as "stealing", IMHO. I think this is rather an example of being inspired ("I'd like to have two bickering guys like that in my movie") in contrast to an obvious "theft" (e.g. Chewie's Tarzan cry in ROJ).

The rest of the film is...well...at best Raiders of the Lost Ark where the golden treasure simply became the Ark of the Covenant.

 

Less than a third of my fifth grade class had seen ANY Star Wars film.....now I have kids all over my school, and at many public places I've visited, wearing Star Wars shirts. I only had one student who possessed what I would consider an impressive amount of SW trivia (for his age). I ended up showing them the OT in the weeks before Christmas Break so they would know what was going on in TFA.

There's even one girl at my school who consistently wears a Vader jacket.

So, say what you want about TFA, but it brought in an entirely new generation of SW fans.

 

I am happy TFA was able to do that.

But the whole unoriginal rebootquel thing that trashes the OT characters and Star Wars lore still sux.

 

And that's about the top and bottom of it. Nothing really creative or intelligent about it. It's all about the commercial drivers.

 

That's a bit of wishful thinking. Star Wars has been mainstream/predominant, and succesfull in the marketplace, since it came back in 1999. There's nothing to be "won back" it's just about "more money".

 

I would agree that TFA rehashed a lot of OT material....but then again, TFA is a bridge not only between the OT and the ST, but also between Lucas' vision and JJ's vision. Now, Rian has the opportunity to really change things up in Ep.8, having established everything they needed to in TFA.

If Rian doesn't use that opportunity, then I, too, will be disappoined.......that said, I can imagine a lot of folks not liking such changes, perhaps even arguing that doing so "trashes the OT characters and Star Wars lore", so he's really screwed either way regardless.

 

Yeah, the script was so poor because they had to rush it, they've admitted it themselves, it's what got Ardnt fired.

 

yeah and it is not necessarily JJ or Kasdan's fault, but simpy due to not enough time. You can clearly see it in the first act with a perfect start and to give the characters room, but at the end of movie you can see they had to come to an end, even when not everything made sense. I only hope Rian is not suffering the same fate with his rewriting. But at least he doesn't have to start with zero again like JJ/Kasdan did.

 

They redoubled their efforts.

 

Well, I wouldn't necessarily blame the script, since we're becoming aware of a lot of scenes that would have added more information......I'm guess these scenes were a victim of pacing.

 

I think you really highlight the difference, no ANH wasn't a very complex story BUT it was a story where Luke has clear motivation beyond fighting the badguys because the bad guys are in immediate threat to him. Luke dreams of becoming a great pilot and expanding his horizons, wanst to become a hero rescuring a princess and also wants to follow in his fathers footsteps and learn the ways of the force, again not massively complex but he's not just fighting for his life. When Obi Wan dies for example Luke cares about him partly because the character has become a link to his father and his path to the future, when Han dies we care because its Han from the OT.

Rey had potential motivations but really Abrams did a very poor job of giving them much build up which I think comes back to my latter point. I suspect Abrams introduces such elements but doesn't develop them well because he knows much of the fanbase who want a quality film will latch onto them and invent depth of their own. Again I think people become so committed to wanting to love a film if they've been hyped enough and argued enough in favour of it that they will build it into something its not if you give them a few threads to work with.

I'll say it again if your basing your arguments of major character motivations on a few subtle moments and "subtext" then I think its a clear sign your argument is weak. This just isn't the way Starwars films have ever been made and its certainly not the way TFA is made, to listen to some arguments here you'd think this was Blade Runner not an Abrams thrill ride blockbuster.

 

If your barometer for success is that it wasn't as bad in SOME regards as Jar Jar Binks/child Anakin aka "Annie"(wtf Lucas?), the horrifically wooden padme/anakin love scenes complete with frolicking in the fields(literally) and a whole host of other absurd prequel moments, we are in trouble as an audience. "It didn't totally suck, give JJ an A!"

And in tons of ways, I'd argue the prequels are far better in their own right.

 

I don't know which would be worse: Luke getting killed in Episode 8/9, or people defending it.

 

Here's where TFA currently stands right now. So, if what you say is true, then it seems the fanbase is more to blame than JJ is.

 

Yeah, hopefully he gets the time to write a great script. Everyone seemed to be raving about the script he already had (not sure if that's a good thing coming from JJ and Kasdan). They're all saying it's different and I really want that to be the case. I'll be really disappointed if it's just a retread of Empire.

 

yeah would be the most terrible movie it Luke already dies in VIII. I could accept if he dies at the end of IX though, when he had time to restore the Jedi order.

 

I blame both. I blame Disney and JJ for cranking out "Star Wars for Dummies: X Box Edition" and I blame the fans for financially rewarding a complete rehash.

 

Maybe you should seek out a franchise with a better fan base?

 

Honestly I pay little attention to the RT meter for these kinds of films anymore, its way too packed with echo chamber net geek reviewers who are dependant on advertising from studios and page hits from people who want to have there opinion confirmed rather than read an informative review. Indeed I think TFA is a perfect example of how far its legitimacy has slipped.

 

it's hard to know and this is just a guess - but I don't think the fans are to blame , I think the fans are making a fair bit of criticism of this movie . the general audience is probably making it a hit , it plays to them , it's safe , there's no embarassing JJBs , it's very familiar , it's got Harrison Ford etc.


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What percentage of Tfn posters do the regulars in the Basher's Sanctuary comprise? Is this a litmus test?

 

I think I'm lost.