ST The Cave-A Domain Of Evil It Is. In, The haters Must Go (The Official haters' Sanctuary)

Ok, here's what broke the film for me. I've said it in other threads, but the moment Chewie walked past Leia was the moment it was open season on all of this films flaws. I forgave ALL of them until that horrific moment. Its just so bad. It just shows that they cared about the classic characters about as much as luggage handlers care for bags. And we can't delve into "Maybe he wasn't ready to talk..." because MAYBE he was. As the film stands, those two characters are broken without an explanation for the walk by. It's just not forgivable.

 

I was a basher and I loved the sanctuary. It's good to see some wrinkled familiar faces. I liked the movie, not as good as the OT but better than the PT. I can forgive the faults because I thought the cast was terrific and I am intrigued by what's going to happen. I did not have that feeling at all with the PT.

If I remember right Binary Sunset might be the only person to have wanted Spliter of the Mind's Eye filmed as the sequel to ANH. Well him and Alan Dean Foster.

 

The point of this thread is not to dissuade debate elsewhere in the forum. What it is here to do is help keep debate at a healthy level and avoid getting to the bottom of the barrel baiting and name calling. Because there are people who legit don't like the movie and there are people who think this movie is the greatest thing since cheese. No one is going to agree on everything. We're trying to help give people who didn't like the movie a safe place to discuss why they don't like it without having to worry about a gusher so to speak jump in and be like You're wrong and your grandmother's wrong you just hate it because you are mad at people who hated the PT or whatever silly argument you want put in there.

 

Fair enough

 

No, I think this is just the den for "butthurt" but it won't be utilized, as the majority of folks who whine incessantly about the movie not fitting their headcannon only want to be contrarian and troll all of us in other threads.

 

It would be nice to not have every single other thread turn into a stupid Mary Sue debate. There are like 5 or so threads on the front page where people have jumped in to whine about the outcome of the lightsaber duel even if it has nothing to do with the thread topic.

 

Overall loved the film, but like any other sw movie, it isn't perfect..(My opinion )

1, Over doing the references..
2, Lack of Phasma, Shes officially the new Bobba Fett!
3, Didn't know much about the New Republic before destroying it,
Would of been more emotional for me if it was Coruscant.. Which I 1st thought it was.
4 , Another Death Star, Oh I mean Starkiller base... (Even though I do kinda like the idea of a snow planet
and a base built into it..)

 

Can I just drop off a small complaint about names? Is this the right place? OK, great.

Ben Solo to Ren, Kylo. So many threads about Finn vs. Ren vs. Rae. Don't huge corporations usually make the names of their products more distinct? When Han shouted his son's name, I honestly wasn't sure he said, "Ben!"

If these Dr. Suess-esque names build up into some kind of "magic words" (Finn Reyziel?), I'm outta here.

 

The haters will always have the George Lucas holy story. It's just the haters usually don't like his vision (like the EDITS) and the prequels.

 

My main criticism is Luke's backstory and order 66 part 2 + Luke running away from it and leaving his friends + family in despair with the evil forces. Luke was always passionate and caring for his friends/family. So it is in a way character assassination. Luke will be remembered as loser, failure and coward. (even Han said it, he turned his back on everyone, a little more family friendly said in the movie 'he walked away from everything')

 

Finally, a cesspool for all of the filth to fester. Bravo!

 

I agree. And I was even part of that club! (I have to say I loved that place back in the day). But it wasn't healthy and it was "right" that it ended eventually.

 

If the series goes as Disney plans (and it is certainly going that way for now), there most certainly will be an ST generation of young SW fans. They aren't building SW Playland so that 48-year-old OT-era geezers will come and play on the attractions.

I will give though that they are not certain to go onto internet forums and get into butthurt fights with OT and PT fans like previous generations.

 

Good someone brought up Mary Sue so let's get the ball rolling.

I don't object to Rey as a strong female character but I do object at how bad she fits into the movie. And what and over the top idea they are trying to sell me without them doing the hard work to make her believable. In short my problem is not with the character but rather the laziness of the people involved in creating her.

I'll just take Luke for an example since it's appropriate to compare the two. This will be more about him rather than Rey so it might be a bit unusual maybe even unfair. Mostly because I've seen TFA only once and I don't care for it enough to see it a second time ( a fact I readily admit ) so I can't really do a side by side that would do Rey justice. But I'll illustrate what I think is missing from TFA and why I can't get behind the main character.

He's being setup through the entire film as this hotshot bush pilot. Little lines of dialogue here and there.

We get two scenes that setup that final which I believe are critical to how believable it makes him.

1. That simple training scene when he is training with Obi-wan which ends with Ben saying "You have taken your first step into a larger world.". Ben is not really talking to Luke he is addressing the audience telling them that Luke is ready to use the force on some level.


2. We then get the escape from the death star where both Han and Luke are forced to shoot down some tie fighters. I believe the score at the end is 2-2 so we get to see that the kid can hold his own against a seasoned pilot if he needs to shoot his guns.

So then we get to the final battle. Before Luke gets to do his initial run he almost crashes his fighter. This is a nice touch this guy is a rookie and his excitement almost causes him to loose his life (what you'd expect). Further the actual run through the trench and the shot is setup as believable. Luke and Wedge have a conversation during the briefing where Luke compares it to stuff he has already done. And another pilot makes the run but misses (wow bad luck).


So then we get to luke's run. He mostly flies in a straight line through the trench we believe it because well it looks like he is a good pilot after all. Han comes in to save his bacon to reduce the feeling that this guy is saving the day on his own. A couple of pilots have his back during it further reducing the idea that what you're seeing is to fantastic. And Vader conveniently mentions that the pilot is strong with the force.


He then turns off his computer and makes the shot (bam magic you're sold). His use of the force is minimal. The setup is perfect.


Wow this is a lot longer than I expected I wonder if it makes sense.

 

I WAS the polar opposit, and earned my one and only 24 hour in13 years for being a jackass.

BUT...

I still love the PT, not as much anymore, primarily because I think Nat Portman is a snooty who needs to get over it, but I seeing 'old freinemies' (seriously kidding, but seeing old names IS nice)

It could happen!

 

I wasn't around in the PT days... but if you look at the old Phantom Menace forums having basher threads might have made some sense. It's pretty clear the movie WAS NOT received well and without those threads the entire forum would have been pretty much all bashing. I mean look at these reply counts:

http://boards.theforce.net/forums/the-phantom-menace.10007/?order=reply_count

 

Just had to get that out...it won't happen again.

 

Indeed. The biggest monsters are the ones you feed.

 

THIS.

I personally don't get this criticism. Snoke was a transmitted hologram from a remote location. Of course it looks CG. It is CG in-universe too, surely.

 

where was the imagination ?

that's a key ingredient of SW . Does JJA have any ideas of his own ?

 

Wrong thread for this talk, but I'd argue that 40-60 year old are cetinly part of Disney's target for the new theme park attractions. Who do you think has the kind of cash necessary to indulge in Disney parks?

 

At a previous job I had a 40 something coworker who went to Disneyland nearly every weekend. Our company was in San Jose.

 

I read "butthurt" and immediately thought...

 

And the Strakiller Base sucking the energy out of a sun isn't?