Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 209: Grievous Intrigue Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I like this episode. I think here we see what a coward Grievous really is. He talks a lot about how good he's supposed to be and how he can handle any Jedi... blah, blah. But in the end, he's always trying to get droids to come help him in his fights, if he's so confident, why does he need help every second he can get it? I think deep down Grievous knows whatever skills he's been taught by Dooku are no real match for a Jedi, the only thing that make him dangerous at all is that weird mechanical body of his with multiple arms and his ability to jump and run fast with it.

One thing I don't understand is what is Grievous's problem with the Jedi, he's says he's not even fighting for a victory over the Republic, he just wants to fight Jedi. Why? What did the Jedi do to him that he is so against them now? All the Jedi ever do is go around and try to help people and maintain peace in the galaxy, at the risk of their own lives. And yet he has this big dislike for them. It's pretty strange.

Also, I really like how Obi-Wan points out the truth to him in their fight. What has he gained for all his efforts? A horribly disfigured body, living inside a metal outer shell, an "army" of soulless robots that mindlessly carry out his simple instructions. It's pathetic, really.

 

One thing I don't understand is what is Grievous's problem with the Jedi, he's says he's not even fighting for a victory over the Republic, he just wants to fight Jedi. Why? What did the Jedi do to him that he is so against them now?

Well, there are two different scenarios for that...one, he is horribly injured in a shuttle crash and led to believe that the Jedi caused it and he reluctantly accepts his new fate and seeks his vengeance against them or that he was a powerful warrior who longed to be a Jedi and was denied that and he accepts the transformation so he can fight them on their level as revenge for them supposedly not accepting him. Either way, it's a misguided notion, but Grievous by this point doesn't know the whole truth or doesn't care.

 

By the way, i just read the ROTS script again and it mentions Eeth Koth being in the council chamber at the beginning.

 

I agree completely, really don't get the complaints here.

 

So that business with San Hill offering Grievous a new life as a cyborg after the bombing or however it went down is no longer canon?

 

IIRC, that was Grievous' memory of what happened in Labyrinth of Evil.

I don't think it has been completely contradicted, but some of the surrounding circumstance may have been altered.

 

I wasn't complaining about it, I was just trying to point out as to why Grievous has a beef against the Jedi...I have nothing against it either, in fact I can see how they can both mesh together into one.

Anyway, it's nice to see that Dooku's 'improvements' seem to be paying off.

 

Ludo_Kressh and Sinrebirth: I hadn't read that stuff from the novel, so this is why I was rather puzzled. So, apparently Grievous seems to think the Jedi caused him to be injured in this crash (even if it wasn't their fault), or he's mad at them and/or envious for this earlier war the Jedi fought in, or maybe some of both. Plus his memory of these events may not be quite accurate after his injury, so he thinks worse of them than he normally would. Well, that helps explain his attitude, I guess.

But he's still nothing more than a freakish alien Jedi/sith-wannabe with a big chip on his shoulder and an over-inflated sense of his own abilities.

 

Apparently, Grievous crash story is non-canon, as Dave Filoni stated. It's an infinities story. Now the official one is that Grievous wanted to be a Jedi, but it was denied to him because he lacked Force-sensitivity. As such, he chose to improve himself, as seen on "Lair of Grievous", so he can stand against any Jedi.

 

Grievous Intrigue was a totally awesome episode!
Adi Gallia was awesome, especially in the action scenes.
Eeth Koth was cool too, I liked how he did the sign language to get the other Jedi's attention.
The BX commando droids were awesome too. I loved how they were waiting for Adi and Anakin.

 

LOE isn't an Infinities product. The situation as presented by TCW was sufficiently vague that it allowed the earlier material to still be applicable.

 

Yeah, there's LoE and Eyes of Revolution from the Visionaries comic..but I've just accepted that it go all go together: he's envious of the Jedi and wishes to have their power and at the same time he seeks his revenge for what they supposedly did to him. Essenetially, he hates the Jedi with every fiber of his durasteel being.

 

Well so much for our champion of EU canon. As Arawn_Fenn mentioned, Filoni is wrong. Jason Fry has already incorporated the Grievous backstory into Clone Wars Cartoon literature.

Filoni no doubt could still make this non-canon if he so wishes, but it would have to happen on the screen in such a way that it can't be incorporated what so-ever.

He simply doesn't have the power to declare something as non-canon just based on his opinion.

 

I don't think that Filoni "wishes" to make it non-canon. In the commentary of Lair of Grievous it is said that according to Lucas Grievous wanted to be a Jedi, was turned down, and so voluntarily became a cyborg to enhance his abilities and to become a better warrior and holds a grudge against the Jedi. In the actual episode it is vague as to whether or not he voluntarily became a cyborg since Grievous claims he did but his medical droid suggests that Grievous submitted to being changed. Filoni wanted to keep it vague out of respect for the EU story, I think if anything he'd rather reconcile the two ideas into canon (or simply keep the circumstances vague) rather than make the EU back story non-canon.

 

What do you mean? I prefer the new version than the last one. Being crashed by Dooku and still serve him is a bit out of character.

He didn't declared it. He simply stated that being a Visionaries story, it's canocity is in doubt.

 

Grievous had no idea there was anything shady about the crash.

 

*raises hand meekly*

Uh... it was San Hill who came up with the shuttle crash idea and how to get it to work in LOE. Dooku only happened to be present afterward in Visionaries. But according to Dooku, it was mostly Hill's idea.

Just saying. That little point is constantly overlooked for some reason. Most (in fact, 99%) of Grievous's downfall was orchestrated by Hill.


I don't mind if Filoni doesn't reference any of that in the show, but it was one of the better parts of the EU, IMO. Just because it was so unexpected.

 

Yup, it was Hill.
Also, Grievous never wanted to be a Jedi. His hatred toward the Jedi goes back to the old CW stories. (The better ones). He became a cyborg after that shuttle crash. That is not non-canon. Filoni can say whatever he wants, but he isn't going to brain wash or attempt to retcon the shuttle crash. It's who Grievous is.

 

*sneaks in*

That's your opinion. But Grievous is Lucas' character.

*tiptoes away*

 

Yes, Grievous is Lucas' character and he can say whatever he wants about him, but it was Warren Fu who actually came up with his design and backstory(from Visionaries).

Personally, I think Filoni has done a good job trying to reconcile both versions by keeping the details of his past somewhat vague and allowing for fan interpretation; you can go with the shuttle crash story or the Jedi lightsaber envy story and they both work together in the context of this series.

 

I actually think Lucas had contributed in part to Grievous's "EU" past. Visionaries and LOE came out at the same time, and the two stories were meant to compliment one another. Like Ludo mentioned, Warren Fu designed Grievous and wrote the Visionaries story; since he was seen frequently discussing the character in the old webdocs that used to run on the OS during the filming of ROTS, I would assume Lucas gave him some of those ideas.

 

Yeah, I'm in the camp that thinks that both backstories can work together. Come to think of it, I think I was one of the first to propose the combination in the General Grievous thread.

My impression from the behind-the-scenes clips with Dave regarding this is that, yeah, he and George decided to go with the new backstory (possibly a retroactive spur of the moment decision), but he does seem to want to leave a window of opportunity open for the old backstory. Dave knows the EU is a great resource (along with repurposing old discarded designs ) and respects it, but it's nice to know he isn't enslaved by it. Heck, he brought back Eeth Koth from the dead despite two other guys saying 'but he's dead!'

I suppose it's no surprise that the Grievous Intrigue Episode Thread would inevitably include major discussions on Grievous. XD

 

That's because you rock. Unlike many posters, you think before you "wah!"

 

Yeah, and it was inevitable that as a Grievous fan I would be a part of it.