Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 403: Prisoners Discussion Thread

Just got home and watched it on DVR, forgot it was even on tonight:

"Eels, very dangerous...." I know where it's from, it's one of my favorite lines. It just doesn't work here. Just awful.

Anyone notice some of the backgrounds look like Tron?

Mash Brothers didn't really do anything.

Couldn't help but notice the lack of lesser species underwater.

The bubble was a cool shout out to the microseries.

You've finally got the Prince, Tamson! JUST KILL HIM! Nope, Bond villainy.

So, the Gungans can breathe underwater now, huh? So, why contain atmosphere underwater in TPM?

Liked the action, loved all the people dying. This ain't some 80s cartoon where nobody ever gets killed.

Ackbar was pretty awesome, the headbutt was cool.

Riff's bombs were AWESOME, I freaking loved it when the Gungans blew up.

The Jaws ending was kinda lame, didn't enjoy it.

The pacing of this episode was much better than the premiere, and because of that I think I might give it a better score.

Also, Ahsoka was kept to a minimum, so like +1000 for that.

 

I just lost a long post I wrote about this episode.

Unfortunately for most of you, I'll probably remember most of it tomorrow.

 

I hate when that happens.

 

Just finished watching "Prisoners". I enjoyed this one and hate myself for it because I know it is lame. But honestly I enoy this show because of how cheesy and campy it is and this episode was a glorious mix of lame, contrived, random, plothole filled crap worthy of something out of my childhood except its far more intense and people actually die. Hell they get blown into chunks. Its endearing in the same way "Downfall of a Droid", "Mystery of 1,000 Moons", and "Evil Plans" are to me. Oh my god it really was like a Disney movie. I don't think I would have been surprised to see characters burst into song.

The Prince is still an annoying whannabe Kiara and his plan was like something Launchpad McQuack would of come up with but the idea of extending ones hand in friendship in belief they'll except it when they frankly should be told to screw off was reminiscent of the OT. The force bubble was a nice nod to the Microseries. Its about time someone spit slime on Padme. The big battle was one sided but sweet and had some of the best background score I've heard in TCW. Ackbar's headbutt was cool. Gungans were badass again. Then Tamson... Booosh! Jaws...

Things I didn't like were the other sharkmen being so weak, laser bolts did nothing to Tamson. The Torture scene. Lee-Char's sudden badassery when a few episodes ago he could barely hold a weapon. The signal. The jellyfish things were never shown being destroyed. Monnk disappeared. Was Ackbar injured when imprisoned? I think that's it for me right now.

I'm not sure what I'll actually rate this thing, realistically I know what it deserves.

 

Well let's see. While I found the first two episodes average but enjoyable, this one was definitely the superior episode of the trilogy. It was slow building towards the end, but when the end came they got right down to business and didn't pull any punches. Those exploding bombs were thoroughly unexpected for me as was the fact that they had few qualms about blowing people up on screen good or bad. It was a bit shocking, nevertheless, I think it added to the realism.

The nice touch of the episode for me was the musical score from the battle at the end. Nice take on some classic Star Wars.

Only weak point was, again, the Prince. He just seemed incredibly two dimensional and did little to inspire confidence. With a different voice he might have done better to convince me he deserved to rule, but this one did nothing for me.

Jar Jar was surprisingly un-annoying in this episode, which is always a good thing. I think they're finally figuring out what they can do with him and what they can't...though I may take that back next week.

And now, for Senator Kelberry's Amusing Nitpick of the Week. Last week I wondered with some amusement how air breathers managed underwater for so long (seemingly days) without being able to eat...or anything related to eating... This week I found myself wondering why Ahsoka's lekku and montrals weren't shriveled up like raisins. Seriously, the others have full helmets, but all she gets is a face mask. I know...it's the undiscovered Jedi power...Force Skin Care.

 

People seem to be making a point of this and I'm genuinely confused. It seemed to me that in TPM Jar Jar wasn't using any kind of breathing apparatus to go diving down to the city at the beginning of the film, so doesn't that establish then that they breathe underwater? If I'm missing something then, please, I would like to know what it is. Is he holding his breath?

As for the second part...I happen to love snow, but that doesn't mean I want to scrape it off my car all year long. I would imagine individual members of a race of sentient amphibians would have personal preferences between water and air environments.

 

Yep.

I just thought it was an obviously logical assumption, and everything we've been given on them in the EU backs up that assumption.

So you would build an entire city designed to keep out snow? It seems more likely that you would just keep your car in a garage, or cover it with a tarp. I'm not sure how this comparison is similar.

It's not individual, it's an entire city built to keep out water where they all live. I didn't see any water-filled areas of the city for people with that preference to enjoy. That's kind of a huge investment for something as trivial as personal preference.

What if they did the opposite? What if they built an enclosed city on land (100 meters from a huge lake) and filled it with water?

What you're suggesting doesn't make sense.

Before you respond, just know this. I don't care if they can breathe water or not, it's just something I noticed.

 

3/10 Predictable, underwhelming and disappointing episode ..... and the plotholes - damn entire plot was one big hole- prince swims around the sea and for some odd reason he is not even in danger- droids just spy on him

-If Prince Lee-char "must be killed" someone should've told that to aquadroids so they could've aimed and shot him before any stupid talks Suddenly he is taken alive while Dooku said he wants him dead (correct me if i'm wrong- i had no interest in listening Dooku)- if droids would be programmed to obey orders they would've shot him at sight...

-Why Dooku is fool who thinks that people are ruled by few droids and sharkman- he should be like Palpatine, politician who says kind words and does evil deeds behind scenes but no- he is fool in TCW he doesn't try to please his people..... and he constantly chats with his pet monsters through hologram...... always..... Dooku's holograms start to make me sick

-What was the point of Padmé's helmet being broken?- Like someone would really care- like someone would be interested- they just wasted time with entire scene no one is interested in Padmé that much they need to know how she survives this time- they should've edited entire scene we know she cannot die we don't need to know how she survives....

-Ackbar is injured and now with Meena Tills.... wasn't Tills last time with Jar Jar- why she was not among "important" people like Anakin and Fisto?

-Nossor Ri is now "senator" as well? Come on where is Tikkes and Nossor was "chieftain" some time ago- he suddenly became senator- in cis-senate? And Tikkes is in council so what is his title then?

- What was the point of those shark people- they were no army- and they didn't do anything important- instead of making their models they could've wrote the better story with that time

- electric eels- what a boring "invention" four eyed eels are not any more interesting than real electical eels- i also hated the way "eelcage" zapped the jedi every now and then and there was no effect on them-
Anakin talks normally "zap" Anakin continues normally "zap"- come on you could be bit exhausted after electical shocks or something but no.....

-they can use the Force to bring down building and to remove water from helmet, but they cannot use the Force to escape from cage made out of eels Father of Mortis would facepalm if he would see the Chosen One like this ..... why they embarass Anakin and Fisto?- Kit did nothing in this episode except quoted Sallah and then that stupid helmet-thing....

-Sharkman will be remembered as wasted baddie but i don't miss him- i knew this would happen- one more incapable CIS-idiot- 3 episodes and then BOOM Did anyone or anything even need this guy?

-"Nossor Ri and quarren are with you" Uh ..... i missed the scene where quarren share their thoughts with each other- do they have hive mind? Nossor was thinking about betraying Dooku, but suddenly all quarren know about it- no one has anything against mon calas or the republic anymore? And they managed to inform all quarren and mon calas without any droids knowing..... what the heck really?

- No more Meena Tills and Jar Jar together

Oh and three pros why i added those 3 points
+ b1 battle droids did a funny cameo in battle scene that had that funny remix of John Williams- i liked that scene.... if only it
would've been in better episode
+I liked the stick-in-bombs Enson used but he should've used them before as well- much more cool that primitive use of jaws- -apparently fishing with explosives is not against laws of CIS
+We see someone spitting in Padmé's face - if she wouldn't have had helmet and it would've been comment rather than attempt to save her life- i would've liked it more

 

Your quite wrong. Riff Tamson is not a "Hammerhead". This is Hammerhead (who debuted in the Cantina during A New Hope).
[image=http://trevmurphy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/ebay_aceo_hammerhead.jpg]

This is Riff Tamson:
[image=http://www.starwars.com/img/explore/encyclopedia/characters/rifftamson_relationship.png]

Zero similarities to any Hammerhead. A quick google search would have showed you how wrong you are.

Riff Tamson is nothing but a shark on a humanoid body. From the second he came on screen I cringed. It is just a point and lick quickie design with no imagination or talent behind it. Utterly boring, just like these past three episodes.

As far as the oxygen, it would not last for days and days on end. A filter would need cleaning as well. The small tank in TPM were only meant to last 2 or 3 hours. I don't care what made up nonsense someone tried to explain it away with, it ruined the episode for me.

And, again, my final annoyance in these episodes was the Lighsabers not boiling the water around the beam when they were activated. HUGE flaw.

 

I enjoyed this episode a lot more than the previous two.

• The pacing, framing and dialogue was much improved from the previous episodes. It had a better flow and, to me, it was easier to see what was going on.


• Mr. Sharkman was a good villain and his death, while a 'tribute', was still spectacular in my opinion


• The rebellion of the Quarren was well done and the final battle was likewise awesome


• The Prince was a much better character by the end of the arc.

That's essentially all I have to say about the episode. Overall I thought it was a vast improvement and was a worthy edition to the series.

What I was most happy about with this episode however was the fact that the original Gendy series' continuity has not been destroyed. Essentially the ultra-nationalist 'Quarren Isolation League' fought the First Dac Civil War only to be overthrown by the Republic. Dooku, wanting the Calamari resources, then dispatches Jaws and nationalist Quarren to overthrow the Mon Calamari and establish a dictatorship, thus beginning the Second Dac Civil War. Evidently however the Mon Calamari and the majority of the Qarren repel the invasion, destroying Jaws whilst the Quarren Isolation League retreat to the Confederacy.

7/10

 

We also have a bat on a humanoid body, a wolf, and certainly many others in the EU. Riff Tamson is still the least awkward of them all.

I'm glad this arc is over. I couldn't stand any more underwater action.

7/10, just like the last two episodes.

 

So? bad things in EU don't make bad things in TCW any better

 

What's the surprise then? If these species already existed and nobody cared, why be surprised about this?

 

Exactly. Animals on a humanoid body have always been in Star Wars - whether it be EU or the films.

 

There is no need to make same mistakes again and again- they've made enough that kind of unimaginative alienspecies- they should stop creating any more...... they should do like they did with Sobeck- select existing eu-species.... then there would be no problem in TCW.... also i would've accepted Enson if he would've been less primitive....

Actually i've never been great fan of that aspect in SW- they can look like that but they act like animals and are still like humans sometimes- just not believable- aliens should really be aliens- odd cultures and bizarre habits.....i accept animal-inspired looks if they act more like humans than animals but Enson didn't- Trench however did.

Why is it so hard for you to accept opinions of others? I just don't like Rik Enson that's it- you can love him I don't care....

If Enson would've been only crazy thing in the arc then no problemo but he was only top of the iceberg
in the end he was one of the things in arc that would've been okay if plot would've been better....

Together with Corruption this arc was the weakest storyarc of TCW - IMO it was generally worse than Mortis in fact..... (I still hate Ghosts more than this)

They wasted hydroid medusas they were passive and useless warbeasts and now they were only swimming there....

 

Mistakes?

 

Best episode in the arc. Much more atmospheric, and I think the water setting works best when action is kept to a minimum.

There was nothing "great" about this arc--it was a pleasant, enjoyable story that was well-executed with some nice animation. So I'd give the arc 6/10.

However, the episode itself had a feel to it that I really liked. 7/10

Anyway, you can pick nits in any SW story--shark-men, Gungans breathing underwater... I reckon if you enjoyed an episode, none of that stuff would matter. When you find those things annoying, something else is lacking in the episode for you, IMHO.

 

Well that's your opinion I guess, however it has always been an aspect of Star Wars. Most aliens in the mythology are inspired by animals and, in turn, act like those subject animals. Trandoshans are like reptiles, Wookiees are like apes, Geonosians are like insects, etc, etc. You may not appriciate the aspects of the series however, never-the-less, it has always been an aspect and as such, to be honest, shouldn't be unexpected.

Alight. What's with the double standards? Why is my response to your opinion seemingly negative or definitive, whilst others aren't?

Mortis reference

 

The story of this arc is entirely dependent on the assumption forced on us that Prince Lee-Char is this powerful symbol that inspires the common man to greats feats of bravery and even brings traitors back over to his side.

This rather harsh assertion is torpedoed in-universe by Lee-Char's uninspiring skill and personality and out of universe because the character is just totally flat.

Going back to Water War we saw that Nossor Ri (No, siree!) was reluctant to rebel, but was compelled to do so because his people demanded it. He didn't seem to have a lot of control at that point, he was just representing his people's desires.

I can easily see Nossor Ri allying with Lee-Char, but it's hard to believe he could sway the rest of the Quarrens. IIRC, Nossor Ri was the only Quarren who heard Tamson's takeover speech (which was unbelievably stupid). Obviously Nossor Ri could have easily passed the word along, but it's not so easy to believe the Quarrens would either believe him or be swayed by it anyway.

What happened to the outraged Quarren? What happened to the people that stormed out of that meeting and immediately attacked? They were against Lee-Char enough to take over by force and enslave the Mon Calamari population. It's hard to believe those Quarrens would give up the power the Separatists have given them so quickly. I mean, things are going as planned for them, right? The only person who isn't getting his way at the moment is Nossor Ri.

If the Quarren believed themselves second class citizens, it's hard to believe they would give up their role as the Calamari's masters and go back to rule under a Calamari King. I think many of them would choose to live under Separatist leadership than return to the way things were.

 

A fairly well executed conclusion to the arc, though somewhat predictable.
It's a bit hard to believe that the Prince would so easily unite the Quarren and the Mon Cala with just a few words, but given the time constraints, there's not a lot of options.

I enjoyed the miscellaneous stuff presented in the episode most of all:
? the underwater electro holding pens.
? electro shock eels
? exploding knife bombs (I can't remember JAWS that well, but I'm sure this is a homage.)
? squid defensive ink
? Captain Ackbar taking command and kicking butt.
? Gungans attacking the trident ship and using water pressure to destroy it. (what a mess it made of the Mon Cala buildings though)
? Sharkman biting Padme's helmet. Yes she can't die, but there was true suspense.
? Jar-Jar using his Gungan spit to seal the hole in Padme's helmet. LOL.

Graphics were utterly superb compared to the more blurry, hazy images in Gungan Attack.

 

The constant of electricity in the water + lightsabers being able to work was just mind boggling as well. As for the torturing - I could understand why Fisto was able to ignore it for the most part, but I did not understand why Anakin could. They all seemed fine and well even after apparent "torturing" from shark man.

My whole issue was that when the prefect opportunity comes for a Jedi to the Force, they don't use it. The Force should power a Jedi, not be this one-time ability that comes to you rarely or it's a power that is rarely used. It is sad that Jedi in this time period now, especially with Lucas-driven media, reply more on their weapons than their use of the Force. It should definitely be an equal mix. Anakin, the Chosen One, not the Weak One, could've done much more with the Force, much like other Jedi, but they just stand around and do nothing or take in whatever is occurring to them.

Every non-Mon Cal or Quarren swam fast in this episode. Not only this, but rarely moved their limbs to help them accelerate. Basically they swerved their bodies like a dolphin would do. Kinda annoying.

 

I didn't say it is "unexpected" i said i don't like sharkman he just is not a good character and i just didn't enjoy him.....

 

You know, I think this arc would be better received had it not been the season premiere. This arc felt like one you would have in the middle of the season, rather then the first three episodes to kick off the season.

 

One thing I thought about this morning, sorry if it's already been mentionod... But what went on with the spaceships? First of all, the Republic Cruiser that brought Kit and Ahsoka to Mon Cal should have had trouble with the CIS ships we saw in one of the shots of Water War. Secondly... why didn't it stick around? It had disappeared in Gungan Attack when the heroes were looking for a way offworld.

Then, what happened to the cruiser that brought the Gungans in? Apparently it disappeared, too.

 

I wondered what happened to the republic cruiser as well. I expected them to call for it as another ship to get off the planet or something. Maybe it wasn't worth risking since apparently none of its remaining clones and officers were trained for underwater combat so it took off. Or somehow this cruiser was the only one available to truck back and forth.