Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 404: Shadow Warrior Discussion Thread

Holy hell I think this was flat out the worst episode of the entire series. I think "Pursuit of Peace" and "Senate Murders" are better. My lame filter set to max couldn't save this one for me. Not good at all coming from me. I'm not sure how I'll rate this one, its not a 1. Maybe another episode would of helped so they could properly show the droids getting shut down and could have done an extended Grievous vs. Gungan battle. Then Anakin could of properly been rescued by Rex and Cody because their awesomeness together could have canceled out the terribleness of the first part.

I agree it makes no sense why the entire Gungan populous would suddenly be mislead into attacking the Naboo after working with the Republic on Dac even if it were to of happened 5 years ago. I called it when I said they'd play on the audience thinking Gungans are all a bunch of morons you could talk into buying salt water and it just doesn't work. Tarpals couldn't have been the only one with any sense. The necklace thing was lame as was the Gungan witch doctor. Padme made poor Cut look alot less badass in her little fight with the Commando Droid. Anakin and Padme WTF? How do a couple of humans just decided these two Gungans look the same and how do you know they look the same to Gungans. Gee isn't that a bit racist or something? Grievous saw though it easily enough. I got the impression he suspected something was wrong quite early on. How did those droids just randomly get shut off? I hate something that improbable happened off screen. Yeah the fight between the Gungans and Grievous was a joke. Tarpals' death was a terrible for nothing sacrifice. Since I'm the hated casual movie fan I appreciate some much more knowledgeable fans explaining why Sidious needs Grievous. Lastly that lightsaber fight between Dooku and Anakin was way to short. I took like three sips of my Coke and Anakin was suddenly suspended in air getting microwaved.

I guess it wasn't all bad. Jar Jar did make me laugh a few times from when he greeted Anakin and Padme, when he was addressing the Gungan Warriors as the Boss, and when he was in the meeting with Grievous. The score going to the Gungan City was straight out of TPM. The speeder chase was great. 4 stabbings occurred in this episode although I'm getting tired of the old saber through the back trick. I loved that tactical droid, lol, it was pink and seemed to have lipstick on. Interesting to see Padme at first unwilling to trade for Anakin. Apparently its his helmet Tamson should have bitten on last week. Lastly the exchange scene was great. Grievous's brazen chuckle there gave me a glimmer of hope maybe the whole thing was some kind of planned out ruse. Grievous did show some intelligence in this one at the table. I'd think he'd be wanting to go lock himself in is quarters and cry. Best part was Anakin getting his saber hilt thrown at his back. I heard Padme's words -- "Its heavier than I thought" -- echo in my head. Pity it didn't hit him in the head. Could of used some comic relief about then. Why did the tactical droid give it back? How does he keep getting this thing back?

Also I counted Grievous killing three Gungans. At the beginning of the fight he sliced one to the left partially off screen (This will probably be fully visible in original aspect ratio) he throttled another with his foot and then he killed Tarpals.

Sorry about the rant and negativity. That's enough of that, its time to look at the bright side because life is to short for me to dwell on failed episodes, clones are in the next episode so its all good.

 

And if the comics that don't conflict are still at all canon, the Separatists already wiped out the entire population of Gungans on Ohma-D'un. Anyway, don't watch the show much, and this definitely didn't get me any more interested. Terrible pacing too.

 

Okay, a couple minutes in and I'm sure Snively Whiplash is the bad guy.

Is this the first time Anakin ever refers to himself as "Ani"?

Hate hate hate the Yellow Submarine. Shades of Blue Shadow...

So the Gungans suddenly are pro-Separatist? Right. Just like the TF isn't really separatist.

The Boss is called "Your Majesty"? TCW has the worst use of formal titles I've ever seen.

Oh look another Dooku hologram!!

God I do not need more Gungans talking. Ever.

Why does Padme let Snively go?

Padme's voice acting much better in this episode.

God this episode sucks so far.

How do the Separatists land a battle cruiser without Naboo noticing?

Why exactly are the Separatists bothering with Naboo?

Wait, Snively's name is Richilieu? Ha ha.

Oh god the Fungans are killing Grievous. Oh god it's actually happening.

Why is Grievous a critical part of the plan, Palps? He sucks.

Dooku v. Anakin looked pretty sweet.

More torture and killings.

Anakin asks why they are coming to Naboo and Dooku doesn't even give him a real response! Bwhahahha.



Wow. I'm beginning to have real doubts about the longevity of this show.

I've never seen 4 mediocre episodes to start a season before, and this was a pretty terrible episode.

 

RIP General Roos Tarpals. Poster boy for whenever I want to show that Gungans can be badass, and they kill him off.

At least he got an honorable, respectable way to go. I'm fairly certain he knew that's how it was going to go down when that fight began, yet he went through with it anyway. Pretty gutsy move. Next time someone says Gungans are worthless, I want to see THEM let Grievous stab them through the heart with an electropole to buy time for their friends to take him down.


Wish they hadn't killed him off, but at least they killed him off in a way that was pretty respectful to the character. Though I wish they hadn't spoiled it in the commercial clip. Seriously, Cartoon Network? That right there all but ruined my enjoyment of the episode. Given I'm a Tarpals fan (Heck, I'm a Gungan fan in general, it's just Tarpals is the most badass Gungan ever, so I like him more than most), it had me bracing myself the entire time, just waiting for the other shoe to drop, and not really letting myself enjoy it. Marks down for that.

And then they wasted his sacrifice. Ultimate fail.

On another note, though, I am still confused about the lack of Boss Nass. Was he retired? Is Boss an elected position, like Queen for the Naboo is? Because he obviously survives until Revenge of the Sith and all. I didn't understand it in the premiere, I don't understand it here.

Loved Rishi Loo as a villain. He seemed to have some mystical hoodoo going on, even without the necklace. Even the necklace is taken as pretty much par for the course as far as Gungan shaman and medicine men go. One complaint, though- shaman tend to end up villains in Star Wars far too often. I mean, it happened to Logray, too. He was all friendly and nice at the time the cartoons and Ewok films take place, but by the time of ROTJ he'd taken a turn towards the darkness and decided, hey, let's use ancient forbidden cannibal rituals!

In any case, the necklace just seemed to make it easier for Rishi Loo to control Boss Lyonie's mind. Given the general state of confusion most of the Gungan Grand Army was in during Rishi Loo's speech, it wouldn't surprise me if he can use that mind-control hoodoo without it, as others have said. Heck, maybe it being on Lyonie's neck, as head of the Gungan people, allowed Rishi Loo to exert control on all of them. Like if you control the mind, you control the body- I know, he's only the 'head' of the people in a symbolic sense, but a lot of mysticism involves symbols anyway, right? So that's my idea and I'm sticking to it.

Loved Jar Jar in this episode! I love it when he does the more flamboyant, in-your-face stuff as well, but the understated gags had me in hysterics. Or about as close as I could get, waiting for Tarpals' death to hit. Seriously, Cartoon Network? Did you HAVE to spoil it in a commercial of all things?

The battle between Anakin and Dooku was pretty intense. Is this the first time we've seen Force choke and lightning used in conjunction? And I know those are the first electrostaffs that we've seen that have yellow discharge instead of purple. Anyone else catch that? Wonder why they inverted the color scheme?

Overall... eh, I'd give it an 6/10. Probably my lowest-graded Jar Jar/Gungan-related episode, mostly because, while they gave Tarpals a fitting, respectful death, they totally turned around and wasted it ten seconds later. That's a slap in the face to fans of the character. A hell of a slap in the face to fans of the character.

 

Also, would the Republic really approve of exchanging Grievous for Anakin? Grievous is public enemy number one, and is probably believed to be more valuable to the enemy than Anakin is to them.

 

Now that is furthering the plot - please, submit your resume to TCW ASAP. All the character motivations line up, you get the same result, Padme doesn't come off as Supreme Decision Maker...win!

I would love to see some repercussions or at least some discussions regarding the decision, but I'm sure we won't. You know - none of that boring political talk stuff. More battle! More action! More underutilized Anakin and Padme saving the galaxy!

 

Oh, ah, it looks like I'm in the minority here. I really, really liked tonight's episode. I enjoyed it so much I'm watching again. Loved the Grievous/Captain Tarpals fight, loved the different Gungan variations, and laughed a good deal at the Jar Jar/Grievous meeting and the Anakin/Jar Jar interactions. I'm surprised it was a stand alone episode. I was under the impressions this whole season would be three episode arcs, but I'm not complaining.

bran

 

I loved this episode. I thought it was close to perfect. I'm writing my review now.

 

Jar Jar + Grievous = comedy GOLD!

I had a ball with this: a bit of humour, a bit of character development, some big moments mixed in, some very nice design... Really, it had everything I look for. I'll be giving this one a solid 8/10, I think.

 

8/10

I LOVED THE ANIMATION, ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT!

Why this wasn't a longer arc I do not comprehend at all. The first episode could have ended with Lyonie's death and then a battle could have unfolded quite easily. It became a victim of the fast pace that "WOTM" suffered from. Other than that, it was a good episode and I liked it. Compared to last season, which I ranked 9.5,8,7,7.5, this season is off stronger for me (8,9,8.5,8), but no episode this season has quite matched the stronger 9.5 charm of Clone Cadets.

 

What the hell just happened? Oh that's right, absolutely nothing. Great job TCW. You guys never cease to astound me. I mean, talk about a kriffing Reset Button, that episode just screamed Filler. What particularly amuses me is that it seems like even IU they want to pretend Shadow Warrior never existed. Can't say I blame them really after what we just watched.

Grievous should count his lucky stars that all the Sith need him to be is an expendable pawn with no real value other than prolonging the conflict and providing a scary face for the Separatists, or else he would have certainly been killed off long ago if not after this debacle. In any other situation, he'd have been dismantled for scrap. What delicious irony in that he's actually better off this way than being an genuine leader of a legitimate army considering how terrible he is at leading the war effort.

Reading through these comments, I don't think I need to talk about anything else, you guys have pretty much got it covered. You guys are doing me a favour because it's like Prisoners last week; I literally am too dumbstruck to type anything coherent. I could do it via oral communication quite well but that doesn't really translate into written words very well. And honestly even if I could type something, I don't want to. These episodes aren't even worth ranting about.

Only question now is whether I quit now or put up with Evil Plans 2.0 for another fortnight before something potentially good pops up. Although, I said last week that Shadow Warrior looked like it could be half decent, and look at what we ended up with. I'm calling it now that Umbara will suck balls. With General "fanboys'* wet dream" Krell in there, I can honestly see it happen.

*not to be confused with me, Fanboy. I hate Krell.

Finally, I'm going to end by expressing my disappointment that they have decided to treat TCW like a typical cartoon show, rather than a piece of Star Wars. The writers should treat it like they're writing lore, not a show for kids. If you don't take a more mature approach to this show, then please classify it "Infinities". There are way too many TV show cliches in TCW for me to take it seriously. I can't accept Jar Jar and Senator Sex Change Tills hugging each other out of fear a la Scooby Doo as canon.

 

I think it's only a matter of time before we have an episode where Jar Jar and Dooku meet.

I could see Dooku getting annoyed and just walking off.

 

Actually, something I just thought about. When Dooku killed Rish Loo, he said "You're a fool!" or something like that. So, were the Separatists even serious about invading the Naboo? Oh my God they were just trolling the Gungans weren't they? So this episode was even more pointless because the Separatists were just pissing around. If I had any faith in the writers I'd try to explain it as deliberately creating tension and agitating the populaces, but I don't honestly think they'd be capable of coming up with something so brilliant.

They probably didn't tell Grievous that they were joking about invading Naboo because they knew he'd end up embarrasing himself either way. So they were trolling Grievous too. It's like humouring a special needs kid, and all the while Dooku and Sidious are sniggering behind his back. And the best part is, Grievous is too full of himself to even notice he's being played for a sucker! The perfect plan!

 

Rushed, would have benefited from less expository dialogue and more working on the characters. The 'Jar Jar looks like Boss Lyonie' thing, I feel, could have been trimmed down to ten seconds with a look of realisation and a transition to Jar Jar in costume, freeing up space for more attention elsewhere, perhaps.

You've got some nice scenes for characters to show what they're feeling (I quite liked the interactions between the main characters, for one) and what they're thinking, but a lot of filler in between.
There were a few instances where a tiny bit more detail would have helped sell the situation, like if Grievous put a huge dent in his door or did a run by smash like back in the Malevolence arc. But I've never been one to cry over milk, spilled or unspilled.

I do wish they'd written the Gungan dialogue a little better upon reacting to 'Boss Lyonie's' return. Did get a chuckle out of me, though.
By odd contrast, I thought Jar Jar was handled fairly well, both in the sense that they recapture his bumbling bits while showing he's grown some. Specifically, he thinks on his feet a bit more and gained a smidge of military grade coordination. Looks like the 'Jar Jar should be trained' comment wasn't just a throwaway joke!

I do feel sorry for Grievous and hope he'll get a chance to display his street cred someday. But on the other hand, I did love the way he was taken down. It was a solid end for the Gungan general for one thing, and makes me think something similar would happen for anyone else trying to take down a Jedi with numbers.

Dooku was my favourite part. Call this ep what you will, I think that guy had absolute class.
EDIT: Oh, actually, I think some elaboration would help. Well, true, you can say "Bah, he just zerg rushed Anakin with his bodyguards", but from there you get that he's still a smart guy who's learned how to trap Jedi. And even without his bodyguards, when fighting Anakin one on one, well...I think Anakin was doing fairly well, like in the very first pilot movie they had, but Dooku was doing excellent. He was dodging his attacks, playing to his strengths as a duelist, and what...we think Anakin is gonna rage his way to victory, knock back the bodyguards? Nope, Dooku masterfully disarms him as easily as he did back in AOTC.

As to the Anakin/Grievous meeting, I think that's still intact; Anakin is out cold, Grievous doesn't get a good look except at his hair. Perhaps he decided his unflattering mullet marks an older Jedi Knight.

Oh. A conclusion. Well, in short, I liked it, but agree it could have been better.

 

Why did the gungans go along with it? Cause they are a bunch of gullible racists, they never liked the Naboo since Phantom Menace. They may have a heart of gold but these guys are not the brightest lights in the galaxy.

Why attack Naboo? Cause every time the separatists attack Naboo it strengthens Chancellor Palpatine in the Senate. Perhaps even as Chancellor he is still politically beholden to the rulers of Naboo and the Queen?

I think my favorite part of this episode was when Grievous said "you are being very quiet" and Jar Jar said "it's cause I'm a deep thinker!" hahaha

 

....sigh.... Season 4 of TCW just doesn't fit for me.....

5/10

This was not horrible, not wrecking the canon -GG and Anakin didn't meet- both were in the same place at same time- that is inevitable in this stupid Anakin-centrism- he should've been someone else and no problem.... anyway GG was not told with whom he was traded with and he didn't even see Anakin's face) but as usual wasted opportunity to do a better episode- it was pointless, boring, predictable and what is the worst thing this could've been so much more such a simple changes and this could've been best episode ever..... their ideas are not bad but way they write them is absolutely horrifying -

Episode had beautiful looks and nice ideas but as complete story this sucked.... once again.....'

+Design and concept of Rishi Loo was nice- he was forceuser i guess while as magician he may've been not force-sensitive but his magic is probably force-based anyway
+Gungan-naboo conflict- nice idea- but opportunity for racial conflict was messed up
+Goodlooking environment
+Kaadus- we even saw them swimming- Kaadus FTW!
+Musical clues to films (Otoh Gunga- Emperor's theme)
+Tarpals
+Bongo

-But no Droid Invasion
-What an embarassment for both Anakin and Grievous this is the lowest situation GG can get- no way... when he is taken down by single ewok that is worse (multiple ewoks are known to be invincible so that's not even embarassing )
-Who shut down the droids again? Some explanations please....
-No Panaka.... but well at least he survives this way.....
- No Gunray- he should've been behind this not Grievous
- Gungans have no democracy? After all these years of peace i would imagine their Boss-centred government would be changed to democracy but no Boss is only one with possibility to decide
-Dooku has a secret lair on Naboo- separatist droids just land there - as Palpatine i wouldn't let CIS to constantly be on Naboo or someone may understand the connection between Palpy and Sidious
-Rishi Loo was wasted and once again people were stabbed and stabbed and stabbed and stabbed.....and tortured by electricity, holograms everywhere..... come on invent something new- TCW is nothing but bad guy contacting to Dooku via hologram then few battles, someone captured and tortured- there is much more things we could see and always those stupid "My Lord blah blah" scenes are filling the episodes -bad guys change but dialogue remains:

bad guy: "Count Dooku" -
Dooku (always in hologram- never on screen):"(Name of the bad guy)Is everything going as planned?"-
Bad guy: "Yes my lord"
Dooku: "Good. Continue as planned"
Bad guy" Yes My Lord"
why to contact if everything is going well? Come on breaking this formula is refreshing and great- continuing it is irritating- some bad guy could use one's own brains and then when plan is succeeded (never happens for CIS-people though)only then tell to big boss.....

 

I would imagine that, officially, the Chancellor loses all official ties and obligations to his home system when he assumes the post - similar to how the UN Secretary-General can't be seen to pander to the interests of his home country.

But otherwise your point is totally valid - his candidacy for the Chancellorship was based on a sympathy vote for his homeworld...maybe he needs to top-up on that sympathy every now and then XD

EDIT:

The worrying thing is, that took less than five minutes to think up - so what the heck are some of these writers spending their time doing?!

Not that I wish to tar them all with the same brush, of course.

 

-Dooku has a secret lair on Naboo- separatist droids just land there - as Palpatine i wouldn't let CIS to constantly be on Naboo or someone may understand the connection between Palpy and Sidious

It was said in the episode that that was Rish Loo's secret lab.

 

Of course, why a Gungan would choose to have a secret lair above water instead of somewhere in the vast emptiness of the ocean depths is a mystery in itself.

 

Maybe because no one would expect it?

 

Heh, we may have to apply that logic to a lot of this episode... XD

 

Why would the Separatists give Anakin back his lightsaber? I understand trading him in for Grievous, but returning the lightsaber was completely unnecessary.

The only REASON why it had to be returned, because it is the same lightsaber in ROTS, and therefore the OT.

Droid 1: We have to return Anakin's lightsaber as well

Droid 2: Why? Besides, we can give it to Count Dooku as a trophy.

Droid 1: We must return it for the sake of CONTINUITY

Droid 2: ??????????

 

I would've loved to see Panaka and Chancellor talking about gungans being dangerous -because they are easily manipulated- some imperial foreshadowing and also so reason for gungans to march against Naboo- Panaka would've reason to fear gungans and fear would lead to anger.....
Great opportunity for bad guys to create distrust when there would be agent of sith on both sides- but no it was all about magical necklace that caused boss to speak odd things ..... what the heck really..... so Gungans march against naboo only because boss is insane? In democracy such guy is voted out of office-

What kind of tyranny is that when boss can talk anything and entire population just listens to? - another species of spineless idiots (like quarren) when boss says or does something everyone follows without question- until "good jedi" and "good Padmé" (who does the wrong thing again) tell them to do the "the right thing" - only then they understand......

TCW have showed such an idiotical "sentient" species lately that I start to support the humanocentric Galactic Empire

And I used to think Empire is evil but now they explain how in GFFA only humans are capable of independent thinking while aliens are either evil or weakminded and easily manipulated ..... So it looks like now- gungans or quarren are not mentally capable of leadership if they change sides only because boss changes his mind..... they actually justify imperial speciesism with this

 

Damn that was a good episode, a hell of a lot better than I expected. A little rushed but still great. Too bad that it seems to be mostly the joyless ones who post their opinions

+ More Otoh Gunga explored
+ Jarjar was actually funny, especially with Grievous
+ Anakin and Grievous being dragged right past each other but not looking at the other
+ Anakin using force repulse on the MagnaGuards
+ Entire Anakin vs Dooku fight
+ Gungan witch doctor
+ Anakin falling off Kaadu and fending off probe droids mirrors Luke in Jedi
+ Grievous' appearance surprised me. On account of TCW marketing team, this is a rarity
+ Visuals - many shots just made me stare at the screen and go 'wow'
+ Good plot

- Speeder chase; not enough screen time
- Rubber Duck spaceship
- Dookus trap could have been more cunning that simply outnumbering Anakin (because thats never happened before)
- Grievous could have put up more of a fight against the Gungans
- Sidious' voice acting (as per usual)
- Lyonie's motivational propaganda speech to 10 gungans. Pretty sure Hitler's rallies were slightly larger than that
- Would have liked to see Tarpals shut down the droids
- Overall, just rushed, too much story and not enough time

 

This episode, if nothing else, represents the core flaws of this series.

1. What was achieved with this episode? The Gungans, a species with no real prior reason to want to join the Separatists, suddenly join the Confederacy despite the fact the majority of the population still ally with the Naboo. A single Shaman bringing down an entire government is just poor writing. Then, from this illogical choice of setting, Anakin and Grievous are both captured (something which could have been a plot devise over several episodes or maybe even the Season) and then are, within minutes, exchanged and everything is the same as at the start of the episode (if you disregard the illogical plot devise of the one Gungan aligned with the Confederacy).

2. This should have been a three or four episode arc. The Separatists should have launched an invasion, broken the Naboo Defense Force surrounding the planet and then launched an attack against the capital of Theed (why not have a montage of many cities being bombarded?). Artillery fire decimates Theed, creating a firestorm as artillery wizzes overhead, all the while the Royal Palace is likewise taking a beating - a redish glow surrounds the city whilst the Naboo forces are entrenched on the outskirts. Realizing the dire situation Anakin and Padme go to the Gungans for aid only to learn they are going to ally with the Separatists, the episode proceeds and the Gungan Grand Army arrives behind Confederate lines at Grievous' command post (likewise there are reasons why the Gungans wish to ally with the Separatists - primarily because of the significant losses during the Battle of Dac and a corrupted ruling council). The Gungans rebel, Grievous kills many Gungans and retreats into the Naboo forest. Likewise Anakin is captured and Dooku talks about the war and the nature of the Sith. The Gungans send in commando-gorilla fighters and they capture Grievous. The Confederate lines collapse and they are forced into a retreat following the outflanking by the Gungan army. Anakin escapes and Dooku fleas with the Separatist forces. Theed is decimated whilst Grievous is being sent back to Coruscant with a convoy of over 100 Republic ships under the command of General Eeth Koth. Realizing that the war could actually be lost if Grievous arrives at Coruscant Dooku leads a military armada against the convoy. Not reserving himself Dooku unleashes the full force of his power, whilst entire Separatist cruisers are sent hurtling into the convoy. Dooku frees Grievous and captures Eeth Koth only to execute him declaring to his droids - "program the ship to collide with the star and send the dead Jedi to the Jedi Temple" (this could prompt Dooku to have Grievous trained by him thus the original Gendy Grievous). The End. Theed destroyed, Grievous captured only to be released in an awesome battle, awesome battle scenes (Naboo soldiers in the trenches), Gungan gorilla fighters and the full power of Dooku decimating a Republic cruiser and then executing a Jedi.

3. Why do Anakin and Padme need to be on every single mission? It's repetitive and illogical to maintain the show (although the voice acting was exceptional for Padme). What about Padme (since it is her homeworld) and Obi-Wan? Padme and Yoda? Padme and Mace? Padme and 3PO?

4. Jar Jar is not a Senator, he is a Representative.


Overall this could have been an exceptional arc. Rather it was a rather terrible episode.
3.5/10

Joyless? Maybe we just didn't like the episode?