Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 413: Escape from Kadavo Discussion Thread

Yeah, I found that be... odd. I liked that they attempted to have a scene of her interacting with her own species and acknowledging that she was "one of them" etc etc, but taking most of the credit for a shared assignment was a little over-the-top.

It remained fairly (and surprisingly) true to the original. But like some people pointed out, there was a scene at the end of the comic where Palpatine decided to keep the Kadavo facility in operation...

I admit I almost literally LOL'd at the part when the Kiros governor decided it was probably best for his people if they joined the Republic. I mean seriously, do they even have a choice? Was Ahsoka joking when she made that "your people are stronger now" quip? There's like, a dozen of them left! Sure, the episode commentaries will probably mention "other facilities" or some such, but that was a glaring omission in the show.

Heh. For some reason I kept thinking he looked like a big Bothan. But yeah, definitely not Zygerrian.

I really think this guy has to be some sort of homage or reference to somebody in real life. Like someone on the production team, or one of their friends, or a famous individual (can't think of any in the latter category that would fit offhand). But he just seems... out of place. Not like I don't like him, but he's just too realistic to be some random Republic officer they whipped up for a couple of scenes.

Yeah, it really worked well toward the part at the end where Ahsoka was running to free the slaves while Obi-Wan and Rex were fighting. They need more of this sort of epic stuff.

 

And it wasn't even a case of Obi-Wan simply allowing Rex to kill him, he actually looks at him and smirks, as if to say "Ok, I'm a Jedi, I can't do this. So will you please go ahead and skewer this poor sod for me?" That's even WORSE than doing the deed yourself! It's like Obi is trying to exploit some loophole in the Force... Oh well, if YOU didn't kill him with your own hands, then that's all right. By that measure, Palpatine is an even bigger saint, I never saw him kill anyone with his own hands.

 

Not as good as the 2nd part, but better than the 1st part.

Anakin: ?Ahsoka?s the real hero.?
Immediately after that line was uttered, I heard a thousand voices cry out in horror: ?SHE?S A MARY SUE!? Disappointingly, those voices were not ?suddenly silenced?.

+Great action sequences
+I liked the slightly different spin on how Anakin/Ahsoka escape with the Queen.
+Rex?s dispatching of Keeper Agruss was LAUGH OUT LOUD.
+Graphics/visuals are the best to date.

-Far too rushed. The episode tramples over areas of the episode where Ahsoka shows disappointment (disgust?) in how Anakin slaughters the slavers. There?s no room to expand on this as the episode tries to do too much with too little.

That being said, there would be no reason to expand this arc into four episodes as that is overkill. But it makes me wonder what they could have cut out of the three episodes to expand on the more intriguing parts. Oh well.

 

Huh... I thought it was very ROL

Rant out Loud.

 

Compared to the previous episodes, I think this one changed even more from the original comic...this time around I felt that more of the changes were improvements, or at least they were as good as the original if different.

Really, there were only three things I disapproved of.
-The original comic ended with Palpatine ordering that the facility be taken intact for "later republic use". When the heroes realized such a place had only one use, they disobeyed orders and blew the place up. Rex's glee at that would have fit in nicely after Umbara
-The Warden was less arrogant and stereotypical in the comic. Instead, he was paranoid and intelligent, able to see through Obi-Wan's various plans constantly, even his feigned obedience.
-As others have pointed out, giving Ashoka the credit was inexplicable. Plus, the governor talking about setting up a militia made more sense than him talking about joining the Republic.

I particularly liked Rex's badassery, and, call me sociopathic - just how many Zygerrians we saw die. There was a big lack of that in the comics. Alo nice to finally have some real dogfighting.

 

[image=http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/29/128698214963981086.jpg]

 

Okay, if somewhat rushed, episode with some cool moments. Seeing Headhunters again was nice and all the ship sequences looked really good. And for some reason, I liked Admiral Coburn leaning on the chair.

My complaints are in line with others'. Not enough screentime for the queen before she died. Over-the-top Obi-wan torture---what is this, a Karen Miller story? Annoying, pointless Ahsoka focus at the end.

One other thing jumped out at me: there were, at best, 50 Togrutan slaves rescued at the end of the episode. What happened to the "thousands" that were taken? Are they dead? Somewhere else? Bah.

 

Nice episode- nothing special though....

+Admiral Coburn is back
+Plo was a badass
+Headhunters were cool to see again and zygerrians also had nice fighters
+Nice to see some living people KILLED by lightsaber buahahaha some cruelty.....

-Dooku had no cloak
-Ahsoka's "ingenuity" had nothing ingenious.
-They just didn't stop torturing Obi-Wan in this arc

BTW Why it is always Plo doing these rescue missions? Holocron Heist, Citadel Rescue and now this.....

 

Actually, no, that is incorrect. There are many subfactions of the Human race in the GFFA. The Naboo and Korun, as examples. Possibly even Corellian.

You may be Human, but they're not your people.

 

I would get mad too if something that you generally watch shows the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again. Unless it's for comedic purposes, showing something repeatedly, albeit needs "to be taken seriously," would get idiotic. In this case, the standard cookie cutter TCW plot of:

 

I agree with the overuse of evil CIS, but I only see that formula applying to this arc. I honestly can't think of any others where it applies to fit this supposed method that you are so angry about. Elements can be seen in the Mon Cala arc, but that's pretty much it.

 

Yeah, maybe besides the Mon Cal arc there aren't any episodes that use the supposed formula you suggested.

 

The main important thing people should watch out for is:

TCW treats the CIS and Dooku as EVIL beings and the Republic as saints. The Republic generally dispatch the same Jedi, while the CIS enlists the "Villain of the Week" to handle the issue.

It may differ in your interpretation, but that's how I constantly see it as. I feel sorry for the CIS, and Dooku's odd "evil" personality they generally give him.

 

I agree with you there GG. I just don't let it bother me so much and try to enjoy the episodes on their individual merits.

That being said, one of the reasons I do love Heroes on Both Sides is how it shows us that there is more to the Separatists than droids and Sith.

 

Okay, that exact formula may only apply to said Arcs, but the overarching idea of "Innocents" either recruited into or kidnapped by the evil CIS, only to be saved by the Republic appears constantly.


Malevolance Arc - Separatist Superweapon goes after medical targets filled with those who cannot fight back. They are potrayed as evil cowards who only attack and murder those weaker then them, or who cannot fight back at all. The whole idea of the Superweapon is it leaves targets helpless to be slowly torn apart without being able to do anything about it.

Bombad Jedi - Poor Innocent misguided people tricked by Evil CIS leader Nute Gunray into joining by promising aid, then going back on their promise and leaving them to starve. Republic in the end saves them and promises them food.

Defenders of Peace - Innocent peace loving civilian people who never harmed anything their entire life under danger of being used as living test subjects by a cruel and heartless CIS General. The Jedi, and Republic by extension save them from extinction, even the Elder thanks them.

Hidden Enemy/Cat and Mouse/Movie - Christophsis is subjugated by evil CIS, and left to die. People are tormented constantly by invading forces, until ultimately freed by the Republic.

Ryloth Arc - Do I even NEED to say anything? The people are practically thrown into Concentration Camps, Civilian Villages with innocents are bombed, hundreds die of starvation. The Republic saves them.

Cargo of Doom - People of Devron are subjugated during the search for Bolla Ropal.

The Deserter - Commando Droids attempt to wipe out a civilian target, including two children. Republic Clone Troopers save them.

Mandalore Arc - Death Watch is allied with the Confederacy, as Death Watch inn-acts multiple terrorist attacks, killing many innocent civilians.

ARC Troopers - Infant Clone Troopers, technically innocent, still being babies are murdered by the hundreds, possibly even thousand by invading CIS forces. No mercy is shown, as babies and children both are murdered in the attack. The Republic saves the facility.

Heroes on Both Sides - The "Good" Senators are shown more as misguided then truly loyal to Confederate Ideals. The good Separatist Senator is murdered... by the CIS.

Citadel Arc - A Deranged and sociopath Warden obsessed with Torture and Death torments prisoners of war in a hellish facility. With the exception of Captain Tarkin, all Republic personal are disgusted by what the Confederacy has done. Republic rescues the tormented prisoners.

Mon Cala Arc - Again, do I even NEED to say anything? A heartless and deranged CIS Officer tricks the people of a world to fight their own kind, causing mass murder and death on both sides. He LITERALLY eats people alive, threatens his allies with death, laughs at people's misery and pain, and more. Eventually the misguided Quarren realize the error of their ways and join the Republic, freeing their world from Separatist tyranny. Woman and Children along with hundreds of innocents are forced into brutal labor camps to work until they die.

Slaves Arc - I LITERALLY need to say nothing. We just saw it.


Honestly, what has the show shown the Republic do?

They invaded Umbara, okay, except we never see any civilians, the Clones mostly fight in self defense, and it's very possible the entire Umbaran society is rigid and militaristic, thus no civilians.

Geonosians have no civilians, everyone is a worker or warrior connected through a hive mind by Broodqueens such as Karina. They have no minds of their own, and can reanimate upon death.

I have honestly never seen a show so biased or so black and white. Hopefully now some of you will understand.

 

I felt like this arc did a better job deformulizing itself than usual. Yes the invasion formula was there. But the monster of the day formula was not. I generally look past both because I expect that sort of camp from this show and actually enjoy that. With this arc there was no one monster of the day. Instead there were multiple potential monsters with the Queen, her assistance, Dooku and the Supervisor but they never panned out. When the Queen dies and later when Rex killed the Supervisor, neither time did I feel like some monster was slain. Because even compared to Umbara where Krell was clearly the monster from the beginning the scope was wider. The closest thing to the monster of the day was the entire Zygarrian Slave Camp.

 

This has been bothering me ever since they showed him. That fat huge rat-looking Agruss Zygerrian, who may or may not be the Keeper from the comic, was your typical TCW villain with his cackling and typical villain characterization that was shown at the end of the episode. Possibly even Atai can be viewed as this.

Basically from what I see, the CIS sees "evil beings" as saviors of the CIS, and those who act good and are somewhat allied to the CIS (the Queen), are inferiors. That is not right.

KeltheDor reminded me of that Heroes episode, but then Confederate_Republic reminded me of the CIS killing the "good" CIS being.

 

THANK YOU

That's why i was wondering why Ahsoka said "her people". Since in star wars, planet governments are the star wars version of nations/nationality. So if people on earth don't see people of other nationalities astheir people, why would say, a human Mandalorian, or a human from Coruscant see Naboo humans as there people? The answer is they won't, and they wouldn't have any sense of loyality to them....just because there human.

 

I see where you're coming from. I wouldn't mind an arc or two focused on the CIS being the "heroes", or "villain protagonists".

However, I'm not convinced by your argument. Dating back to AOTC, the Confederate military being out-of-control and beholden solely to the Sith and their allies is part of the setting. Remember Dooku's secret conference which Obi-Wan spies on? In Republic Commando, the CIS aids the Trandoshan slavers against the Wookiees, so helping bloodthirsty slavers is not new.

Say what you want about Heroes On Both Sides, but that episode had an undeniably positive portrayal of the CIS civilian government, backed up by the following episode with a negative portrayal of the Republic equivalent. The Republic Senate is corrupt while the Confederate Congress is dominated by saints. The pure-hearted heroine is trying to secure a ceasefire and peace which, in a war over secession, necessarily brings about the victory of the seceding faction. That's almost ridiculously pro-CIS on a grand Galactic scale.

The portrayal of the CIS military as being led by butchers is consistent with the films and appropriate for the setting. Likewise the Sith-led corporate conspirators being the true rulers of the CIS. It all balances out the positive portrayal of the democratic civilian government and vice-versa. We need to see more of the civilian side, plus a few earnest citizen-soldiers, but the CIS is portrayed as evil for a reason.

 

StarWarsFan91: That's how I see it as too.

Quango: I was reminded of the Heroes episode when KeltheDor mentioned it, and what you said, but then I was reminded of what Confederate_Republic said. What the new "congress" of the CIS don't realize is how the CIS and Dooku actually acts outside. It goes back to my point of how the CIS acts utterly evil and the Republic as saints, who were sent to stop the CIS. Basically while it would make sense for the people in that episode to assume the CIS is doing good, but from an audience perspective and what's actually going on in TCW, they are just idiots for not realizing what the CIS typically does when it subjugates a planet that wants to join the CIS.

I think the flaw of the writing in TCW is that if they continue this trend of "CIS evil, Republic good" story plots, none of this "good CIS" will make any sense because the CIS is constantly portrayed as evil beings.

 

Okay, I agree with the general theme of innocents being cliched and fru

 

It's still the same race. In a galactic scope, they are his people. Just because some live on other planets, that doesn't make it any less human.

Anyway, the point was made on the episode.

 

Yes, they are Human. However, the big difference is that the different races, clans, ideology, or "planetary people," that are established.

The Naboo are not Corellians, much like Koruns are not Hapan. They all have different ideologies, and what not, that make up who they are.

You can refer to them as Human, but to state "they are my people, or are my people" as a whole is flawed.

 

@ GGrievous

There has been a decent amount of it, but there can be more shades of grey portrayed.

If there was a series made in a galaxy far, far away based on a morally dubious historic war on Earth, you'd genuinely see heroes on both sides, atrocities committed by both sides, et cetera. Both sides are human, with all that entails. This isn't possible with TCW because the parts of the Republic and CIS we see most of the time - the Jedi-led military and the Sith/corporate-led military respectively - are so radically different. The ascetic warrior monks are always going to have higher standards of conduct than the social Darwinists, anarcho-capitalists and the bloodthirsty mercenaries they hire.

To get some real greyness, they need to show non-Jedi, non-Sith, non-mercenary and non-corporate military personnel in decision-making positions.