ST The Development Of The Sequel Trilogy

My point I think didn't even deal with this scene, really, and was more about a lack of cohesiveness within it's own trilogy, and how it sort of breaks themes and contradicts itself within it's own story, it seems, at times.

I know that he wasnt kylo ren when he was sent to luke. There was something wrong beforehand, though.

 

I disagree. Its fitting. I don't know what you would have expected. The entirety of this film, save for when theres the do-this-do-that dialogue, leads to this at this point. Han has been out of the picture. They don't know what to say exactly and imo the unspoken is better presented with more grounded, don't speak the obvious, what would they actually say dialogue. So within the film it works. That is part of the intrigue of tfa. What happened and how did this come to be.

 

Seriously, why are they leaking all these Trevorrow stuff NOW? Either these are fake (still a possibility), or someone is really bitter about TROS.

 

There IS something terribly off about these concept art pieces. They are interesting, but they also seem rather convenient. Possibly photochopped characters onto other concept art perhaps. Something's not right about these.

 

According to Hamill, the version of the ST that Lucas had in mind on the eve of the Disney sale in 2012 would’ve had Luke training Leia throughout the trilogy itself, and then he dies at the end of IX once her training is complete. Not sure how Thea (Rey) would’ve fit in with that exactly, but whatever.

I don’t think the flashback of Leia being a Jedi was a Trevorrow thing. Pretty sure that came from JJ and Terrio. Sounds like it was just Luke’s ghost training Rey in this version, tho I could be misremembering. If that’s the case, tho, I’m glad they changed it. I think it’s better when the ghosts are just mythic “guiding lights” that come around only every once and a while, when the hero needs them the most. Sort of like a “west case scenario” type thing. Having the ghosts be day-to-day teachers is just plain weird imo.

 

There's apparently 150+(?) concept arts ready to be leaked. This reminds me when TONS of TFA concept arts leaked long before the movie came out. I agree the timing seems off for this movie.

 

Already said this on reddit, but I feel the need to mention it here again:

This art looks great! However, I still stand by my original opinion that the overall tone of this version seems too “dark” for a final installment (and a lot of this art seems to confirm that for me). That being said, there are still plenty of concepts here that I woulda loved to have seen in the final film, such as Finn leading a stormtrooper Rebellion (tho I understand why there wasn’t much room for that given how JJ and Chris were determined to keep the trio together this time around as much as possible, which is a decision I honesty respect). Also, seeing that last pic of Leia with bb8 really broke my heart. I really wish she would’ve been alive to film that. :/

 

They already showed suicide and several decapitations and torture in TCW which was a "kids show", I think people could handle it in a movie.

 

I don’t think it’s so much about what kids can and can’t handle (I know that kids can handle a whole lot these days). I think it’s more about what “feels” right for a given movie installment. I’ve said this before, but I think a lot of these ideas would’ve worked in the middle installment of this trilogy, but not necessarily the final installment.

 

These are not fake. On many of the images you can see the signatures of the concept artists (Christian Alzmann's, for example, who also did concept art for The Mandalorian).

 

I don't know that "too dark" is really much of an issue after Episode III.

I prefer Star Wars to be less gratuitous too, if it's too much for a 7 year old or whatever it's probably too far, buuuuut that being said: George broke that in '05, there's precedent. Not really seeing how an Axis-force equivalent committing seppuku is any worse than a shrieking near-torso rolling down an embankment and catching on fire screaming.

 

Scenes like Hux suicide with epic wide shot of the crumbling First Order on the background looks amazing, but i feel like the story CT wanted to tell wouldnt work great given TLJ story.
Like, i would be way more invested in Hux' fate and dramatic end of his villain if there was something more to him and his story in TLJ other than being dragged around like a clown by Snoke and Kylo.
Its really hard to finish the story in third act when someone in second act completely tossed out most of the characters introduced in the first act.

 

I'm actually starting to think you've not actually watched these films, or have little grasp on how these films are structured. Of course Snoke is depicted as the 'big bad' in both TFA/TLJ. He literally is the 'chief' fella (or in this case Supreme Leader). This is basic stuff.

That's not what you stated before. You were alluding to the idea that there was no story left to tell after ROTJ with those characters. If that were the case, the sequels would have been set in another part of the universe and/or set hundreds of years after the OT. The entire premise of the ST was that it was the last trilogy in the Skywalker saga. And as such, it's a bit of a cluster****...

Bigger does equal better if it's about power and the ability to lay waste to your enemies. The films clearly establish that the FO is more powerful. Also, where exactly in the films does it state that SK base was not built by the FO? Can you reference the dialogue please?

Well we don't know that because it's never written into the sequels, because they are poorly conceived... which is kind of the point.

Supposition not worth consideration. Clearly Lucas' intent wasn't for the audience to assume that the restoration of balance was good for just a couple of years.

Vader is clearly not a subordinate of Tarkin in A New Hope. Tarkin commands the Death Star. Ergo, Vader must respect Tarkin's command. Vader reports directly into the Emperor. If Vader reports directly into the Emperor, logic dictates that he must either be above Tarkin, in the pecking order, or a peer of Tarkin. It's the latter.

Of course it does.

Of course it's the 'hub'. It's the area where the player can choose the mission/planet.

I dunno? Maybe I've played the game as often as you've watched a Star Wars film?

Your frequent propensity to over-generalise seems somewhat designed to troll, but anyway, when did I state that I liked every iteration of Call Of Duty or Assasins Creed?

I don't think I ever stated it was a strategy game per se. That was your inference because I stated developers could replicate quest and strategy elements.

I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean what makes me confident that Disney will course correct in terms of how they handle the property? If yes, I think the downward trajectory in box office of the ST and the negative critical appraisal of TROS will perhaps result in less hubris going forward... which has a good chance of improving/elevating subsequent Star Wars films to, at the very leas, raise quality above that of the ST. However, that doesn't change the opinion that the development of the ST has been an exercise in expedience, designed specifically for Disney accountants. The result being a move away from creativity, imagination and risk... to a production model that cranks the handle on passe, soulless/artless SW product. The sequels are the SW equivalent of 'rubber soul'. But of course, that's just an opinion...



F

 

Or, as a personal agent of the Emperor, he stands apart from the pecking order under most circumstances.

Something like "Off the Death Star, he reports to the Emperor. On the Death Star, he reports to Tarkin".

At the time ANH was made, he tended to be described as Tarkin's henchman by tie-in media - the Poster Monthly magazine series, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and so forth.

I recall that as late as the first Visual Dictionary, published back in 1998, he was described as Tarkin's right-hand man.

 

Yates didn't want to put in the scene where Wormtail's arm, cursed by Voldemort, choked him to death because it was a form of suicide. No way they'd ever show Hux doing the same.

 

To be Honest this looks so much better than the unimaginative stuff JJ gave us.

 

Yeah, seems pretty clear by now that Vader's not exactly in the usual Imperial pecking order. He's certainly not "above" Tarkin though, it always read more like Tarkin's the actual head of the military and with total authority on anything Death Star related. Vader's the unofficial guy who for all the regular grunt or officer knows doesn't exist , until he actually does. He's the silent shadow enforcer, but he's not allowed to boss Tarkin around short of relaying an order from the Emperor. Which, hey, Tarkin's probably going to get directly from Sheev anyway, might not even trust Vader as an intermediary due to all the inevitable Sith betrayal stuff.

Snoke/Hux reads a little more straight-up boss/sycophant, and when Kylo's less of a newbie and has proven himself then yeah, screw what Hux thinks. Vader knows there's a line with Tarkin he can't cross.

 

Vader is certainly more of a 'henchman' type figure in ANH. In terms of 'function', it's typical to have a villain that does the scheming (is the 'intellectual) and the villain that is the more physical threat and does the fighting. It can be seen in the type of films Lucas was a fan of in his youth. A pertinent example would be something like The Adventures of Robin Hood where you get the antagonists Sir Guy of Gisbourne and the Sheriff of Nottingham.

 

How does that square with other accounts that Lucas' treatment had Luke as a hermit? I would tend to trust that Mark Hamill's words on this matter are harder to distort than it would be for an interested party to distort what legitimately was in the Lucas treatments, if that meant they could represent that Abrams fridging Luke, and then Johnson f r i d g i n g Luke, was Lucas' intent from the beginning. Which doesn't scan.

Possible in-universe rationale for Vader being placed under Tarkin's authority while on the Death Star: If Vader did not report to Tarkin on the Death Star, there'd be more Ozzel's failing him for the last time, and the brain trust required to keep the work on a massively expensive Los Alamos technological terror from "stalling" would evaporate. Disney could make a Rogue One Half prequel to Rogue One where Vader chokes all the scientists and engineers until Krennic's choices were down to the B team and Galen Erso. Would give new meaning to Vader throwing shade on the technological terror. Outside of the Death Star, there's no real technological terrors for Vader's impetuous wrath to endanger. There's a lot of command ships.

 

In Legends, Vader did some Force Choking of Death Star foremen whenever things stalled.


The Dark Lord stared through impenetrable eye goggles and hissed through the respirator. "I am here to ... motivate your workers," he said, looking from Tarkin to Lemelisk.
Lemelisk rubbed his pudgy hands together, smearing grease stains into the cracks on his knuckles. He wiped his hands on his thighs. "Good, Lord Vader! They need some motivation. The Wookiee work crews are strong and competent, but they take every opportunity to stall progress." Tarkin looked at Lemelisk, astonished, and the engineer wondered if he had said something he shouldn't have.
"Then perhaps the construction foremen need to exercise a tighter grip," Vader said. "Or perhaps I need to demonstrate the limits of discipline."
Lemelisk found Vader terrifying. Yes, a pep talk from the Emperor's right-hand man would make even the most recalcitrant Wookiees work harder and faster.
But Vader did not have a pep talk in mind. Looming over terminals, he scanned through the computer records and work activity reports and selected the Imperial crew bosses who supervised the construction teams with the poorest performance.
Grand Moff Tarkin summoned all supervisors to sit around a big table in the largest briefing room in the completed portion of the Death Star.
"I am most displeased with your progress," Vader said after he had singled out the two least effective construction foremen. As the others watched, trembling with terror around the table, Vader raised his black leather glove. No one could read any expression through his skull-like plasteel helmet.
The two unfortunate foremen gasped and choked, clawing as if an invisible, iron-hard fist had wrapped itself around their windpipes. They kicked and thrashed, spasming, choking. Drool ran from their mouths - then there came a crunching sound, and the spittle ran a thick red. Their eyes nearly popped out of their sockets like spoiled fruit.
Then Vader lowered his arm, and the two dead bosses crumpled across the table. Vader looked at the sweating construction foremen who remained at the table. "I expect the rest of you to do better from now on," he said.
Vader ordered Tarkin's stormtroopers to take the pair of dead bodies out to the space construction site, where they wired the vacuum-frozen corpses to crossbeams on the outer shell of the half-finished Death Star.
Lemelisk was surprised and appalled at Vader's tactics, but he changed his mind when he noticed that the crews did redouble their efforts. Tarkin was also very pleased. His own future seemed bright indeed.

 

There's always a story to tell, as evidenced by the EU. But the EU was basically the further adventures of Luke, Leia and Han. It was irrelevant to Anakin Skywalker's story, which was (is?) the common theme of the saga. Lucas's original plans for Episodes 7, 8 and 9 were consolidated in Episode 6, and I have serious doubts that his 2012 outlines were something he'd had in mind for long. I believe he pulled those out of his rear to sweeten the Disney deal.

This trilogy will be remembered in the same vein as The Godfather Part III: not bad, not great, but definitely unnecessary.

 

Regardless of how much I like some of this newly-leaked concept art, I really do still think that the biggest thing that gives TRoS the advantage over DotF is that it put the new trio (Rey, Finn, and Poe) on an adventure together for most of the movie.

 

Well, Hidalgo claims Lucas’ outlines started with Han and Leia’s son (who was called Skylar at the time, if I recall correctly) starting out good and then turning evil, which leads to Luke’s hermitage, until Thea (Rey) finds him and he agrees to train her. Sounds like all of that was originally supposed to happen in Episode 7 (I don’t really see how you can squeeze all of that into one movie, but ok). Then, Luke was supposed to have also trained Leia throughout 8 and 9, up until his death at the end of 9.

So it sounds like Luke’s disillusionment/ hermitage period was originally supposed to be very brief, and start and end with Episode 7. While this may have worked, I can see why JJ and co wanted to put Luke’s disappearance in the backstory of the new trilogy, as it adds a sort of mythic “weight” to his absence, so to speak.

 

I much prefer Rey's design in these concepts from what we got in TROS. The double bladed lightsaber would have been a fantastic evolution for her, and set up some amazing shots.