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TFA TLJ The Development of the Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Artoo-Dion , Sep 14, 2017.

  1. La Calavera

    La Calavera Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    As others have said, GL comments reminds me of the Yoda arc in TCW.

    Would've been cool to see that story. Would've been specially cool if Disney allowed that story to be told as well as keep their own canon, make it something like alternative universe versions for the different fans with different tastes. Though don't know if that would be financially possible or profitable enough for Disney.
     
  2. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Lucas claims to be an experimental filmmaker so his art ruffling people's feathers is not surprising at all and he's aware of that. He's also known to take risk despite everyone else's warnings or fears. Many Lucasfilm employees stated as much. He even encouraged people to not be afraid and to go beyond their comfort zone and to experiment more which is exactly what they should do to keep things fresh and innovative, imo.
     
  3. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    I don't see how it's at odds in the least. It is possible in Star Wars to have multiple storylines going on at the same time that weave in and out and finally intersect. That's kind of the way it works.

    Again if Lucas just says we are getting into the Force world of the Whills instead of the terminology of "microbiotic" that once again is much like the midi-chlorians then I doubt anyone is thinking twice about it.

    "Lucas says he would get into the Whills in his sequel trilogy."

    "Lucas says he would get into the Whills who live in the microbiotic world in his sequel trilogy."

    "Everybody hated it in Phantom Menace when we started to talk about midi-chlorians. There's a whole aspect of that movie that is about symbiotic relationships. To make you look and see that we aren't the boss. That there's an ecosystem here.

    The next three Star Wars films were going to go into a microbiotic world. But there's this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are actually the ones who control the universe. They feed off the Force."
     
    Count Yubnub likes this.
  4. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Reluctantly trained her IIRC.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  5. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    This info is fascinating no doubt, although Lucas is certainly right to suspect that most general audiences wouldn't go with it. Of course, Lucas was already progressing into increasingly metaphysical and metaphoric territory in The Clone Wars, so this would likely have been a continuation of those ideas.
     
    Krueger likes this.
  6. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...
    [​IMG]

    depend greatly on our own point of view...
    [​IMG]

    Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you?
    [​IMG]

    Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is.
    [​IMG]

    Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us.
    [​IMG]

    Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.
    [​IMG]

    You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes....
    [​IMG]

    Even between the land and the ship....
    [​IMG]

    This isn't a new idea of his. I'd be interested to see where it went. Maybe in some other universe, we are.
     
  7. TheCloneWarsForever

    TheCloneWarsForever Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2018
    While being aware that untold stories often benefit from a "grass is greener" glow, I'd happily take my chances on this over the movies we've gotten from Disney.
     
  8. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    At first, probably. According tot to the Art of TLJ,Luke's arc in VII was to come back to himself during the course of the movie while training a new apprentice a.k.a. Thea:Kira/Rey and Lucas apparently told Hamill that he planed to kill Luke in IX after teaching Leia. That would have been nearly 3 movies worth of actual teaching.

    Hopefully, Lucas will reveal more of his ideas for his ST, even if they're just that.
     
    -LordSkywalker- likes this.
  9. Mungo Baobab

    Mungo Baobab Manager Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    I think it's possible that these ideas have been folded into some of the details about the relationship that kyber crystals have with the Force that have shown up in the novels recently ( sentient crystals ), and formed some of the world building in R1 ( Guardians / Disciples of the Whills and their connection to the Temple of the Kyber ), along with TLJ's idea that the Jedi and Sith are pawns in a larger, cyclical struggle between light and dark.
     
  10. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    As someone who didn't like the Mortis storyline in TCW, I'm glad that they didn't adopt this angle into the ST. I think The Force works better as a theme and storytelling device when it is mystical and only knowable through philosophy and spirituality, not a scientific empiricism. These ideas from GL seem to be pulling SW too far into the realm of science fiction for my tastes.

    But I can't say I'm surprised to read these comments. It's been known for some time that GL's biggest inspiration for SW was Dune and the idea of midiclorians are similar to the interconnected biospheres and Gaia Theory that Herbert popularized. In this sense, he sounds a bit old fashioned to me, as contemporary science fiction has largely moved on from Herbert's ideas and is generally interested in transhumanism originating from a technological singularity rather than encounters with extraterrestrial intelligence. SW has never been much concerned with distinguishing between human and alien intelligence. Even throughout the old EU they were mostly the same. This stuff with midiclorians and Whills feels too new-agey for me, like Lucas' interests might be locked into a specific cultural moment (the late 60's early 70's) that SW has always managed to be bigger than even if that's where it came from.

    Do we really need to understand The Force from a scientific perspective? I say no, because we'd lose more than we gain.
     
    Jolee Bindo and Darth Downunder like this.
  11. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I feel like the issue with Star wars currently really comes down to the fact that george liked to be quite explanative and complex. while the people at disney are trying to be the opposite to that.

    Now you would automatically assume Disney making these movies would be the favorable option because they ain't pushing the complexities of how the universe ticks... but perhaps playing in the same ball park over and over because its appealing to audiences is also abit of a bad judgment also.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
    Count Yubnub likes this.
  12. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    I respect and at least try to understand everyone's opinions, but I find it disheartening when I read that we lose more than we gain when we dig deeper and try to be more thoughtful. It's akin to saying ignorance is bliss. Keeping things generic, and allowing each audience member to bring their own meaning to the force is fine and dandy, and I guess it allows everyone to stay in their comfortable belief systems. If someone doesn't want to have to challenge themselves, this works great for them. But if you are someone who likes to think about things, and delve deeper into philosophical issues, then you want to hear different people's opinions and ideas. IMO, the most fascinating of all of George Lucas' ideas was the idea of trying to bridge a connection between the spiritual and the scientific. To me, the question of how the two ideas relate is right up there with the mysteries of birth, death, and the relationship between parents and their children (the three great mysteries of life, according to George).

    Anyway, I would love to hear more about George's ideas. I'm guessing they would have given us a lot to think about. Instead we got movies that nearly abandon the story that was being told and instead focus on meta concepts like the fans relationship to the franchise itself, and what to hold onto and what to let go of. Don't get me wrong, I liked TLJ, but the truth is, I am still sort of in shock that they tossed Lucas' ideas in the first place. To me it seems like the ultimate show of arrogance. Lucas created the most popular movie franchise of all time, but they believed they could do better. He didn't get it anymore. And now the ST sort of feels like a chicken running around with no head. SW is so awesome that almost anything they do is better than most other movies for me, but I must say, the development of this ST feels like a complete mess.
     
  13. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    The impression i get is that people do not want change, they want what they had left alone with all the unknown that came with it. they don't want anything new added to it and they don't want nostalgia reused over and over again till it runs dry and i do kinda understand that feeling.

    Maybe many would prefer just to explore unknown bits of the star wars universe as that way it remains safe from changes. although that would probably be less marketable for audiences but hey.

    I remember when R2D2 flying was a huge deal when really its not a big deal. its a new addition but it doesn't affect all that much

    Some people also are abit against seeing Maul in Solo because people kinda rather he remained dead since thats what they always believed for years now and having to accept that he didn't is a pretty big issue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  14. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Yeah, and somehow there's a perception that Lucas' treatments were completely discarded (and perhaps Lucas himself feels slighted to a certain extent), but the more likely scenario is that Lucasfilm took the concepts they liked most and developed them on their own. I think it would have been impossible for them to deliver TFA by 2015 had they started completely from scratch.
     
  15. Ubraniff Zalkaz

    Ubraniff Zalkaz Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Rian and George sound like they approached the ST in similar fashions. I hope Rian consults and talks with George about this upcoming trilogy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  16. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    I'm dying to know what they discussed from that tease in The Director and the Jedi.

     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
    Eternal_Jedi and Ubraniff Zalkaz like this.
  17. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    See, I don’t think SW has ever actually done this, at least not seriously. Whatever else you want to call it, SW is not really science fiction, because it never asks the audience to imagine that its hypothetical technologies or civilizations will or ever could exist according to our consensus of reality. Technology in SW is essentially magical, not scientific. When it retreats into fantasy it abandons empirical thought, which is the foundation of science.

    Maybe those are his interests, but the primary themes of SW (as I see them) have always been: destiny, the conflict of good vs. evil, the corrupting allure of proximity to power, and the rejuvenating role of youth in society. These are all Classical themes, not Science Fiction or Modern. New Ageism on the other hand, (which is clearly where his inspiration for midiclorians and Whills comes from) is a kind of pseudo-science fiction, but one which has gone out of style in past decades because it was premised, in large part, on an ignorance of Eastern spirituality and pre-colonial cultures.

    As someone who absolutely hates TLJ (check my sig for my rankings), I too would have preferred that GL write and produce the ST. I just don’t like this particular idea of his. It sounds like a kind of “total explanation” for the GFFA and how it operates, which I think is a mistake. It would be like if Warner Brothers made a Lord of the Rings movie where the elves are revealed to be ancient aliens, and magic is actually advanced technology. That is what I mean when I say I think we’d lose more than we gain. Everything in SW would suddenly revolve around how we interpret the influence of midiclorians.

    Edit: Just as an aside, I should say that I actually like Herbert's work very much, and I'd love to see Lucas do his own interpretation of Dune or the Destination Void series, just not within Star Wars. I wonder if he secretly resents James Cameron for bringing back Herbert-inspired movies (Avatar) before he did.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  18. Strongbow

    Strongbow Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Welp.... enjoy your retirement George. And stay weird. 'Cause that's weird! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  19. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    I think it's arguable that the development of the sequel trilogy suffered to a certain degree because Disney mandated a 2015 release for TFA. Once the writing of TFA shifted from Arndt to Abrams and Kasdan in October 2013, it also seemed to prioritize making just that film the best it could be, as opposed to taking the time to fully map out the rest of the trilogy as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  20. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    I don't see the ideas behind either Midichlorians or the Whills as being New Ageism or Eastern spirituality, but I'm no expert in either of these belief systems. I see them as Lucas' clear attempt to link biology and psychology, more akin to the study of Kabbalah, which, in part, explores the relationship between the different levels of existence, from the singularity of the universe to the soul to the spirit to the physical body. You could consider Kabbalah new age but its been around for a very, very long time.

    The difference between how you see it and how I see it crystallizes the argument of whether its science fiction or fantasy. You see it as Lucas trying to make a scientific argument for spiritual matters. I see it as a transcendence of science and spirituality, making the two work together as one, in a fantasy setting. It's more of a spiritual explanation of science than a scientific explanation of the spirit. I'd argue the same about Midichorians. Lucas was just trying to say our spiritual faculties are ultimately biological in nature. It doesn't negate them or suggest a certain belief system. It just says we are animals with spirits.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  21. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2015
    I recently read what George Lucas wanted to do with the Sequel Trilogy and frankly I find it be VERY bizarre. It isn’t really “Star Wars” anymore. It’s some new, avant-garde creative experimental stuff and I don’t think it would be too good. It’d definitely be different but just I don’t know. I never would’ve expected that in a million years.
     
  22. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Funny because you say it isn't Star Wars, but then what you go on to describe, IMO, is pretty much identical to what someone would have said upon hearing the pitch for A New Hope. So it may not be Star Wars as defined by what's done in the previous episodes, but it sounds very much in the spirit of the Star Wars I grew up with... Bold, innovative, and unexpected. Staying true to itself, IMO, means maintaining Lucas' cinematic and storytelling adventurous spirit. Not imitating him or rejecting him. The negative stance towards "avante-garde, experimental stuff" reminds me of another thing that has been lost, which was that SW always featured the most advanced, new, often experimental, fx possible. While the fx have been fine with the ST, I don't remember anyone really focusing on them at all during the releases. Lastly, what could possibly be more bizarre than A New Hope? The fact that 40 years later, the movie has become so ingrained in our minds that we don't find it bizarre anymore is a testament to the truth beneath the surface.
     
    Oryx-I, Count Yubnub, G-FETT and 2 others like this.
  23. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 New Films/Fan Films Manager & Ewok Enthusiast star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    I love Lucas' ideas for SW in general. The OT is obviously amazing, and say what you want about the prequels (I personally love them), the ideas and the world building is fantastic. The Clone Wars took SW is new directions as well, and Lucas showed once again that he's a master idea-man. My favorite episodes of TCW are the Force-lore episodes - Mortis, the Yoda arc - the weirder ones.

    That being said... I think, uh, I think we dodged a bullet here.
     
  24. Darth Caliban

    Darth Caliban Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Would be great if you had this file in a higher resolution? Can't read it on my phone.
     
    Immortiss likes this.
  25. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Lucas has always been more of an experimental filmmaker at his core, and I think these ideas are a reflection of that. He's obviously had huge success with crowd pleasers like American Graffiti and Star Wars, but he's also still the same guy who made THX 1138.